Stimulus Package

Past-E-Mail: Various Topics: Politics and Religion, Ketchup or Gravy: Stimulus Package
Daveofmohawk (Daveofmohawk) on Friday, March 6, 2009 - 07:57 pm:

I don't know about anyone else but for me the stimulus package is the best thing that any administration has ever done for us middle and lower middle class Americans. It's going to be a $25 per week increase in unemployment benefits, plus the first $2400 of benefits will be non-taxable. That along with the $400 per yr. reduction in federal income tax is going to be a total of about $1000 more in my pocket for 2009. That's a lot better than giving the wealthy another tax break like the Bush Administration did. If McCain had been elected he would have followed in Bush's footsteps, thank God that the American people got off their butts and went out to vote.

By A. David Archibald (Yooperatheart61) on Saturday, March 7, 2009 - 01:35 pm:

Right you are!!!

By David Hiltunen (Davidcorrytontn) on Saturday, March 7, 2009 - 06:17 pm:

Enjoy your $1000.To only publicly target the wealthy you're actually targeting everybody! The wealthy haven't really been hurt that much. The wealthier you are, the more operating capital you have left even if you lose half your operation. We have people who have lost their jobs. Liberalism hurts the very people that it says they're intending to help, the little guy is the dirty little secret. The way that Obama speaks you would think he's out there targeting the rich people. That's what his voters think. His voters think he's targeting the rich people while giving them health care,new education by soaking the rich while making sure McDonald's has Chicken McNuggets when you show up to order some. So you think he cares. You think he's doing all these things while "targeting the rich, and this has been the standard operating procedure for a long time is to succeed to make these voters of Obama happy when their lives don't change but get worse! But feel happy the rich in your mind are getting shafted at the same time.

A fascinating story. Do you remember the Caterpillar incident? This is just an amazing story and another reason,to be grateful for the Heritage Foundation doing a great job, where I got this story.

Let me give you the scenario of what happened, in case you have forgotten. One day, it happened to be a day prior to President Obama flying to Peoria to meet with the CEO of Caterpillar. The president announced that he had talked to the CEO of Caterpillar and the CEO of Caterpillar had assured him that he was going to start hiring people after the stimulus bill was passed, going to start rehiring laid-off employees The CEO is Jim Owens.The next day, after the event was over and the reporters get to the chairman of the company,Caterpillar, he says,( I 'am paraphrasing) "Well, no, no, not really. We're facing some more hard times before we can actually start hiring people back." But that didn't make much coverage in the Liberal Media because all they were interested in was promoting Obama's photo-op and his lie. As it turns out, it was a bold-faced lie, it was a bold-faced ambush, it was a bold-faced example of manipulation, where the CEO of Caterpillar Jim Owens was tricked into saying that he would hire new workers if the stimulus bill were passed.

The Heritage Foundation put on a conservative bloggers briefing and a congressman showed up, Aaron Schock. Aaron Schock is 27. He visited the conservative bloggers briefing at Heritage, and he spoke on a range of issues, but he told a particularly interesting story regarding a visit of President Obama to the Caterpillar plant in Peoria, which is Aaron Schock's district. This giant plant's on the east bank of the Illinois River, it's home to Caterpillar. Our son Eric is a Tech. for Stowers Caterpillar here in Knoxville TN.and was flown to Peoria, IL in one of those fancy Corporate Jet's. Caterpillar makes more than just heavy equipment. They make construction mining equipment, diesel and natural gas engines, and industrial gas turbines. The CEO Jim Owens, and in response to Obama's claims that the stimulus bill's power to create jobs, said, (I' am paraphrasing) "I think realistically, the truth is we're going to have more layoffs before we start rehiring again." This happened on February 12 th. The February 12 th speech in Aaron Schock's home district got him a ride on Air Force One, which he Aaron Schock took. He said the president didn't lobby him heavily, it was really when they got in front of everyone that he began doing that.

So believing he was on friendly turf, Obama called out the young congressman at the beginning of his speech. Obama said, "Congressman Schock where is he? He's back here, stand up, Aaron." There was applause. Aaron is still trying to make up his mind about our recovery package. So Obama buttering Aaron up said this,"He has a chance to be in the mold of Bob Michel and Ray LaHood, knowing that everyone is going to talk to him after the event,because he's a very talented young man. If you do not know who Michel and LaHood are look them up, (sorry not good at placing links) I have great confidence in him to do the right thing for the people of Peoria. Schock also said at Heritage, "'I was surprised to be called out the way I was. His next line drew hearty laughter from the surrounding bloggers. The funny part was, I stuck around for 45 minutes while he was in there taking pictures and the Caterpillar employees came up to me and said "Hey Aaron, stick to your guns. This is a bad bill." The irony was the local UAW did not endorse the stimulus bill.'

Later, through calls and emails, Caterpillar employees continued to urge Schock not to vote for the stimulus and he had fourteen hundred Caterpillar employees alone urging me to vote against it, After the rally, Schock, the President and CEO Jim Owens boarded Air Force One. Schock said he sat nervously next to Owens, having believed Obama when he said Owens supported the stimulus. Schock said, 'I know Jim Owens,the guy has a PhD, graduate of Wharton. This guy's smarter than this. I don't think this is something he'd say. So he got on the plane and leaned over to him and said: "Jim, are you really promoting this bill?"' Schock paraphrased Owen's response, "Aaron, I got ambushed. The President called me up and said, "Jim, what would it take for you to rehire people at Caterpillar?"' Owens responded by saying if a 'responsible stimulus bill' was passed, he would be able to rehire workers." And so the President left that phone call and went out and said "The CEO of Caterpillar said if my bill passes he can rehire. Obama made a couple of assumptions first, that his stimulus bill was responsible which it is not, and number two, that it was going to get the economy going again which it won't.

This is the way our President Barack Obama is in the the White House with he, Rahm Emanuel, and others manipulating, ambushing supposed supporters, misleading them and using them to advance an agenda they do not support. This kind of thing is starting to happen more and more.

By Sandy G (Artessss) on Sunday, March 8, 2009 - 12:03 am:

So Congressman Aaron Schock and owner and CEO of Caterpillar Jim Owens just watched as our president mislead and ambushed them into agreeing that they liked the bill? It seems if the president was going to talk to the CEO, president of Caterpiller because he had told the president he could rehire laid-off employees with the bill, why did the president have to go to him and hear that again? (Photo op with Caterpiller?) Yet it was the chairman of Caterpillar who said it was stated wrong, not the CEO Jim Owens? You say here that Congressman Schock was having a difficult time trying to decide about the bill? Whew!

By Shirley Waggoner (Shirlohio) on Sunday, March 8, 2009 - 11:22 am:

Davidcorrytontn, thank you for your post! Hopefully more light will be shown on these types of 'dirty' dealings. But, alas, the barn door is locked and the horse has to speak!

By David Hiltunen (Davidcorrytontn) on Sunday, March 8, 2009 - 04:03 pm:

Well maybe we can place some hurdles to jump over to slow them down.

By Matt Karhu (Matt_k) on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 09:44 am:

David H. must have been busy reading up on the stimulus bill. We can judge how good of a job the president and his advisors have been doing after the stimulus bill has been in effect for an appropriate period of time. I don't mind helping the less fortunate citizens of the United States; perhaps some of what is in the bill will help those who are truly in need.

By Shirley Waggoner (Shirlohio) on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 11:28 am:

Seems even some of Obama's fellow Democrats are starting to have problems with his 'stimulus' package after reading the 'fine print'....some even 'revolting', for one instance the Dem. Senator from N.J. He is 'rebelling' against a part of the package ("Cuba provision") that would "ease U.S. rules on travel and imports to the communist-led island". This particular senator is an "enraged son of Cuban immigrants". Maybe Obama needs to read a book on how to 'win friends and influence people', 'cause his way of 'leading' evidently isn't working.

By Tom (Tom) on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 12:21 pm:

This stimulus bill is very confusing. So many parts to it. One thing I do know is that if the gov't spends money on something that the private sector or state gov'ts would have spent on, there is no multiplier effect. And it is the multiplier that the Obama administration is hoping will kick in.
Otherwise there is no creation of NEW jobs. And that is important, too, NEW jobs, not current jobs.
Some Democrats are resisting the bill as it is presently.
I suspect that it will be my great-grandchildren who will pay for the bill. I will be long gone by then. What a world.

By Eugene Zuverink (Zube) on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 09:56 am:

Daveofmohawk, all that money sounds good, but China is going to own this country, your children and your grandchildren if the Democrats don't stop there generosity

By Eugene Zuverink (Zube) on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 10:15 am:

I just heard the CEO of the bank we do business with here in our small town on the radio saying they were offered a few million from this stimulus deal and they said "no thanks"

By Eugene Zuverink (Zube) on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 10:48 am:

If any of you want to go to this web site,
"taxrefund 1.pps' you can get your own refund, it's easy.

By Shirley Waggoner (Shirlohio) on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 - 03:06 pm:

Zube, in response to your 9:56 post...China isn't going to own us.....unfortunately they already do, thanks to a not-so-distant past prez whose name begins with C.

By David Hiltunen (Davidcorrytontn) on Thursday, March 12, 2009 - 01:30 am:

Many CEO's of all kind's on business have and will say No! The smart one's who are not in the red, but black ink, dose not want Government involved with them in anyway. In fact would like them to get the heck out of the way more so.

By Eugene Zuverink (Zube) on Thursday, March 12, 2009 - 09:49 am:

I'm sure some of you herd Obama defend the PORK in the package he signed, but he said if I heard him right, well look it over more and if there is things that we don"t like or should"t be in there will take it out.You and I know that will never happen, I bet you all the tea in China HE never read any of the Package either. If he thought any thing should have been taken out, why didn't he do it before he signed it, no dought because he dosen't have a CLUE whats in it.

By Tom (Tom) on Thursday, March 12, 2009 - 11:39 am:

Eugene; I agree with you, Obama did not read the stimulus package. His aides do that and tell him what they think. Perhaps those aides have an interest in some of that pork?
Obama promises that any future spending will have all the earmarks evaluated one by one. I doubt that will happen. Time is of essence he says and the bill must be passed now!!
This country would have been better off not bailing out any banks/corps and simply paying unemployed benefits until the market economy rights itself.
There would have been a deficit but not nearly as large as what is coming.
Fiscal policy, which is what this is, takes approximately 18 months to kick in--------due to all the haggling in Congress and then the time it takes for the bureaucracy to implement.
The economy could easily begin it's recover on it's own by then.

By Tom (Tom) on Saturday, March 14, 2009 - 12:42 pm:

None of you reading this page have expressed outrage at Nancy Pelosi and her jet plane?
$30,000 per month to maintain and fly her back and forth from DC to California. What a gal.
Perhaps that is part of the stimulus package? ha.

By David Hiltunen (Davidcorrytontn) on Saturday, March 14, 2009 - 06:27 pm:

Nancy Pelosi, I do not like her polices. She is very wealthy, one must admire that. Other then her Vineyard, do you know what else she owns a chain of?

By Eddie Allen (Glocktologist21) on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 07:03 am:

I think Gov. Bobby Jindal {R} Lousiana had put it in so many words...By accepting the Federal stimulus money to care of some of the state’s unemployment and economic issues requires permanent and lasting laws passed for a temporary solution.

If your unemployed right now, it’s very understandable that anything, even just a bit more extension can ease things a bit but for how long?...What happens one year from now when the stimulus money that was used to “get people by” is no longer there and has been long since spent?
Do we just start another one and keep on spending? Do we just keep waiting and hoping things just “turn around?” The Obama clan on their campaign trail last Fall said “we cannot drill our way out of an energy crisis and get people back to work and on their feet, again.”...Well, you can’t keep raping the American taxpayer and “spend-spend- spend ” your way out of a problem, either.

Until corporate America wakes up and stops being greedy and our government does things to give American businesses incentive to operate here instead of China, India, Taiwan and the like, we won’t become a strong working nation again.
Until people stop living beyond their means and start balancing their finances as opposed to the “I must have the biggest and the best” of everything will we become stronger on a personal level...and believe it or not you’re actually seeing more of that now that America has tightened their belts...Cheers to those who have been doing this all along and prayers for those who’ve been scraping and just making it without creating a monster debt with a credit card ...Bless you!...The name of the game is to keep your money and not have to pay more interest than you must.

Huh?..What’s that you say?...GM just announced the other day that they were going to be able to keep from having to spend an additional two billion dollars of bail out money this month by streamlining operations and work more efficiently?...
Well duh!...See what happens when you trim the fat so to speak? I know this because I’ve worked for an airline for the last 21 years that had been on the brink of closing its doors a few times and simply by stopping spending frivolously and keeping the excesses down we’ve managed to stay at a break even point even after 9-11-01 and the surge of the prices of oil last year.

So before you think that the 787 billion stimulus bill is the best thing since the invention of peanut butter, keep in mind that there is always long term effects. That usually involves making more laws to amend old laws as stipulations to accept these federal monies at a state and local level....and we all know how House and Senate Democrats love to make laws! How many liberties and freedoms is one ready to exchange over the long run to get just a little to “get by” on for a short while?

To Davidofmohawk...I’m happy for you, man....but just from reading your post, you can tell that like you, so many people are going to look to their government as a “savior”...when in fact they’re going to play upon your desperation and then they have you right where they want you which is to grovel for what little bit they will entice you with like stray dogs in the street looking for those little scraps that get dropped out the back door of a restaurant kitchen.

The way I see it...I’ve gotten by on my own and I’ll sink on my own if that’s what it may come to but I will not cave willingly to my government if it means taking something from me in order for them to give it back to me at lesser value with concessions.....Peace

By Shirley Waggoner (Shirlohio) on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 11:02 am:

Eddie Allen, outstanding statement, I salute you! It's refreshing to see someone in your age group with a 'head on their shoulders'! (how do I know your age...I checked your profile) With young folks such as you 'out there', there's still hope for this great country of ours, in spite of the liberals and their self-serving handouts!

By Eugene Zuverink (Zube) on Sunday, March 15, 2009 - 12:10 pm:

Our greedy Governor here in Michigan said if there is any states that don't want the money, will take it, how bad is that, every state should say no, well make it,keep Chinas money we don't want it,and you are right Eddie Allen

By FJL (Langoman) on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 04:44 pm:

What's this I hear. Fannie and Freddie are going to pay hundereds of thousands of dollars in bonuses to their top Executives. To the people that created this mess in the first place....... The Government wants, under threat, the AIG bonus recipient's to return theirs... Rep. Barney Frank(D-Mass.) wants to fire anyone who takes the AIG bonuses. "These bonuses are going to people who screwed this thing up enormously, who made terrible decisions." he said on NBC's "Today" show monday. One wonders, given that logic,why Frank is accepting a congressional pay raise considering his role in the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac debacle

By Shirley Waggoner (Shirlohio) on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 07:31 pm:

Good for you, Langoman! I wondered if anyone else 'out there' knew of Barney Frank's DEEP involvement in all this financial mess. And yes, he will accept his 'raise' and continue to thumb his nose at those folks in Mass. who continue to put him back in office! Well, actually, he'll probably give all of us a 'bronx cheer'.

By FJL (Langoman) on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 10:02 am:

Shirley, the "DEEP involvement" of Frank's and Dodd's perpetration leading to this financial crisis is noted in my series of posts starting on Tuesday, Dec. 9th. 11:43 PM, in the "Politics" thread........These are fact's everybody should be aware of. Seeing those two blaming everybody else for their blunders makes my blood boil.....

By Shirley Waggoner (Shirlohio) on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 10:20 am:

I'll check out your Dec. 9th posts, Langoman. I'm in agreement with you on all counts, but do you think that what they did were really "blunders"? I believe that manipulaters like them do everything with eyes wide open and with an intended purpose. Their actions only become 'blunders' when they get caught!

By Tom (Tom) on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 11:35 am:

I am sure those congressman and senators did the things they did because there was a benefit of some kind to them. Dodd really has mud on his face for his part. But, this morning he claims he was forced to what he did.
This is great example of why not to have our govt become involved with business. They just don't know what they are doing. Yesterday's debacle showing outrage at those bonuses was a way of showing publicly that they were "innocent" to their voters. And I suspect in Frank's case and Dodd's no one will car very much.

By David Hiltunen (Davidcorrytontn) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 11:44 am:

This whole bonus business just goes on and on. Here we had the House of Representatives voted yesterday on a 90% tax claw-back on the people who got the bonuses. Barney Frank, the Democrats and Andrew Cuomo, the attorney general of New York, insists that the names of the recipients of the bonus be made public. So to punish the achievers. Is this McCarthyism what is happening here? Obama when he gets in trouble goes to the people, and has the ability that Reagan had to go straight to the people with his town hall meetings. Did you watch his appearance on Leno last night. I think there were like 16 sport games on which gave Letterman a day off, so Jay had no competition, other then Sport's. I did not watch either.

By FRNash/PHX, AZ (Frnash) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 12:29 pm:

David Hiltunen (Davidcorrytontn):
"…the House of Representatives voted yesterday on a 90% tax claw-back on the people who got the bonuses. "

Perhaps the House of Representatives needs to brush up on the constitution. To me, that sounds extremely close to being ex post facto law:


In the United States, the federal government is prohibited from passing ex post facto laws by Article I, section 9 of the U.S. Constitution and the states are prohibited from the same by clause 1 of section 10.

But of course that would be an administrative/tax law not a criminal law, so it might fit this loophole(!):


A large "exception" to the ex post facto prohibition can be found in administrative law, as federal agencies may apply their rules retroactively if Congress has authorized them to do so. Retroactive application is disfavored by the courts for a number of reasons, but Congress may grant agencies this authority through express statutory provision. Furthermore, when an agency engages in adjudication, it may apply its own policy goals and interpretation of statutes retroactively, even if it has not formally promulgated a rule on a subject.

In the 1994 opinion United States v. Carlton, the U.S. Supreme Court unanimously held that retroactive tax laws did not violate the constitutional prohibition on ex post facto legislation.

Not to mention this interesting little twist, from the Hartford, CT Courant: Dodd Admits Role In AIG Bonus Controversy, quote [Emphasis is mine]::


U.S. Sen. Christopher Dodd, already reeling in public opinion polls, suffered another political blow Wednesday with the admission that he had been involved in key legislative changes that helped pave the way for AIG to pay controversial bonuses to its employees.

David Hiltunen (Davidcorrytontn) on Friday, March 20, 2009 - 03:22 pm:

Perhaps the House of Representatives needs to brush up on the Constitution. Constitution, is that very old piece of paper and the Bill Of Right's still in place anymore? Someone should alert the Media! Extra extra read all about it!

My President Obama told the town hall meeting," that we've gotta move fast on immigration reform and get these illegal's into unions," (applause)

From Nancy PELOSI: You are very special people. You're here on a Saturday night to take responsibility for our country's future. That makes you very, very patriotic. Who in our country would not want to change a policy of kicking in doors in the middle of the night and sending a parent away from their families? It must be stopped. What value system is that? I think it's un-American. I think it's un-American. (applause)

Ever Wonder?

Who is out to destroy as much of the capitalist system as they can? Do you hope they will? If so, I want your names printed here saying so.... A dangerous game. I wonder who might be found dead next to the cannon up the hill with no mud on their shoes?

Who wants a downward cycle, which creates the need for government? That's what this AIG business is about. Are these people are thieves? Whose been running these people down, ripping them to shreds? Who is taking their jets away from them, taking Las Vegas away? Who is wrecking the recreation industry? Whose wrecking the corporate travel and business industry? I think it is the same guy who said, I will fix these problems that I didn't cause.

You think that it's just AIG and these other clowns that are not any longer going on their golf trips ect.

By Eugene Zuverink (Zube) on Saturday, March 21, 2009 - 01:44 pm:

FLJ, Your post on March 19 you say " These are facts everybody should be aware of" but what can we do about it. Only if we lived in that 'LIBERAL" state of MASS> we could help vote them out, but thats about it, other than that we just put up with it. Hard to beleive, but thats it.

By Eddie Allen (Glocktologist21) on Saturday, March 21, 2009 - 01:46 pm:

Interesting developments these days...As always, politicians are politicians regardless of what party they belong to...
Let it be known though, that no one who voted for the Democrats in the House and Senate and voted for the Messiah / Savior should not be concerned about a single thing!
All is good, right? We’re on the road to recovery, right? MSLSD News Station’s Keith Overbite and Rachel MadCow should like just go ahead and cancel their shows since there’s really nothing to complain about anymore, right?

Funny how when there’s outrage over this AIG scandal, suddenly people have themselves in an up roar. Hey, who were these people that we’re outraged at?

I’ll tell you who they are...They’re all friends...That’s right! All the big wheels of AIG are friends with guys like Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, and Obama-Messiah himself along with a host of a bunch of other politician misfits... Why?...Because AIG manages a whole lot of these political dimwits’ (Republicans alike) retirement programs. Do you think they’re going to let them fail? NO!...thus the big push by Chris Dodd and I’m sure the above mentioned as well to put language into the stimulus bill to give these guys their bonuses.
Funny how Timmy Geithner knew it was coming a week before bonuses were given as Dipstick Dodd knew, and as well as B.O. knew the day before it was announced, so says the Washington Post...I’ll bet you “all” these guys on Capitol Hill knew this earlier on but only panicked and cried what an “OUTRAGE” this is to the American people when they knew their cover was blown and then the finger pointing began. Then only to follow that up with a stupid bill immediately passed to draw down 90% on bonuses from happening...despite Congress had still given themselves a raise last year after the election...sheesh!.... Crooks, I tell ya!

Keep in mind that this new claw back on bonuses law is actually attacking individuals specifically and not a law that pertains to everyone in the U.S.
This is not just about AIG...It’s just the tip of the iceberg of many incidents that have yet to be exposed and policed due to the complications of giving bail out monies kind of as I was saying in my last post. There will be much more turmoil to follow. There will be other things that involve our government handing money out like candy when the government wants a particular company or state run organization to “DO AS WE TELL YOU”....That’s what happens when you interfere with Capitalism instead of letting it run its course even when it hits a low period and that gives them the go ahead to push toward Socialism.

I saw mentioned our great Governor of Michigan earlier and how much she would welcome any monies left over that no one would take. What kind of agendas and control would the federal government want in return?
It kills me that I’m not there to vote in my home sweet home of Michigan...I still have at least 8 years before I can move back permanently and become a resident again. What kind of Socialist state am I going to be moving back to in retirement because some heads of state government took the bait back in 2009 and set a precedence for permanent law changes requiring you to cave to the federal government’s standards?
Why people would vote Jenny G. again into office is beyond me. She’s already ran the state in to debt so far it’s pathetic. Jeez, people!.. I pray for a better future for every state that refuses to get caught up in this mess!...

By Tom (Tom) on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 12:06 pm:

The Obama administration wants private investors to buy some of those toxic assets. I hope the funds I am with, such as a bond fund, to not buy any of this stuff. My investments have taken a big hit as it is.

By Tom (Tom) on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 12:18 pm:

A fiscal policy dilemma: Unemployment impacts the families of those unemployed. Inflation impacts on 100% of the population. The next result of a huge stimulus is inflation. Fiscal policy that curbs inflation causes unemployment.
Not all downturns in the business cycles are caused by govt, of course. But when govt steps in we do get these nasty results. A free market is far better than interference by govt.

By 4WDGreg (4wdgreg) on Friday, September 25, 2009 - 09:31 pm:

Leading economic indicators are up for the fifth straight month! Yay!

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