off the topic

Past-E-Mail: Cam Notes - 2004: April: Apr 14-04: off the topic

By uper1 on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 07:00 am:

Didn't realize we could use this site for our commercial endeavors (i.e. Donn De Yampert). That really doesn't seem right, almost as bad as all of those posted messages yesterday.

By Roudy Mi on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 07:13 am:

I understand these are pretty good too. One just has to pluck the boom,stack,and get rid of the stringy things. Then slice into........

By Renee on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 07:25 am:

Oh no, not again......thought the bowl of petunias.

By ra on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 07:26 am:

mmm....fishin' for freighter, anyone got a recipe for freshwater fricassee freighter?

By Mike, MI on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 07:30 am:

As someone who has visited this site for quite a while, it is surprising that someone like uper1 would make comments like above. Donn has given us many wonderful photos and I look forward to them. If uper1 doesn't care for the comercial aspect of this site maybe there is a better site for said person. I for one hope Donn continues to submit his photos.

By uper1 on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 07:50 am:

Mike, I also have visited this site for a while. I love the pics that are posted and I think Donn's picture's are great. BUT, it is my understanding that this site is not to be used for commercial endeavors. If I am wrong, then fine, maybe I will open my own album and start selling garage sale items or antiques or arts and craft items or some of my own pics. I would like some clarification on this Charlie, otherwise look forward to seeing a photographic garage sale soon at your guest gallery, after all, what's is fair for one is fair for all, unless of course, some people are receiving preferential treatment.

By MurphySurf, in Trolland on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 08:05 am:


I must not understand your complaint. I went back to yesterday and see that Donn has listed the technical information about the photo that he submitted. He has nothing for sale in that post that I can see.

I like to see the technical info because I am a "hobby photographer" and use this information to learn to take better pictures.

If I miss your point I am sorry.


By uper1 on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 08:14 am:

MurphySurf, I am referring to Donn's new guest gallery album. He has posted numerous pictures and their selling prices in the album. I say that if this is accepted usage of the guest gallery, then I should be able to take pics and sell anything that I want to sell in the guest gallery area. Why should I pay for my own website or go to outside advertisers when I can take advantage of the free space offered here.

By Roudy Mi on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 08:14 am:

I think I'll call off the Pasty cam Reunion in Eagle River this year. There are some people I wouldn't care to see.

By uper1 on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 08:20 am:

Roudy, if you can't handle 'freedom of speech' that's OK with me, I believe in it, and fought for it!! All I am saying is basically, "what's good for one, should be good for all".

By Captain Video, MI on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 08:22 am:

When you guys want to get get "nasty"!

By Patti, TN on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 08:26 am:

Please stay with us, Donn. You have far more fans & admirers than criticizers. Your talents & pictures are certainly not in the 'garage sale' class :)

By uper1 on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 08:28 am:

Patti, you certainly miss the point...

By Down State Dave on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 08:30 am:

Oh boy -- what a can of worms we have today! Donn is a sponser of and pays a fee, I'm sure, to advertise on the commercial pages of this site. Should he also be able to advertise his wares on the free side of the site? Tough question guys but a fair one, I think.

Let's debate it and see what the site owners think. But let's keep the debate civilized!

Josh, great picture! What ship are we looking at please?

By Roudy Mi on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 08:31 am:

uper 1, You miss the point!

By wondering on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 08:32 am:

whats upper 1

By uper1 on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 08:38 am:

Down State Dave, thanks, somebody finally got it, I should have referred to his sponsor site also. I don't care what he does at his very own site, he paid for it. But what he does at the free guest gallery should apply to all picture contributors. And, indeed, if he is allowed to advertise and sell his wares there, then I should be able to sell my items there also. But, in all fairness, I don't feel right in taking advantage of the guest gallery.

By Mary Lou on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 08:44 am:

I agree with uper1....there are many wonderful photos on this site...especially the historic ones...which are valuable. Donn is only one, of many, good phographers on this site. Incidently, my son recently found a photo on EBAY... FOR SALE.. It was a copy of an antique photo of the old Portage Lake Hockey Team......stolen from their web site.......there ought to be a law!!!!..I have some unique historic photos of pleasure boats on the Portage Lake (early the Jos. Bosch & family )...I would hate to post them and then find them for sale on Ebay or anywhere else!!!

By no on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 08:46 am:

i dont

By chilli on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 08:54 am:

Aye, tis nice to wake up to a bit of controversy on such a beautiful Copper Country morning. I sure did enjoy the sunrise this morning, it was rising almost right next to a sliver of a moon, really neat but didn't have a cam to capture it. Anyways, back to my coffee, y'all play nice out there...

By TLM on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 09:13 am:

I have to agree with uper1. I have the greatest respect for your talent Donn. I appreciate your contributions to this board and love all of your images. But I think you should reconsider using the Guest Gallery in this manner.

By Heikki on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 09:48 am:

The gallery in question is no longer posted.

By CCCR on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 10:05 am:


You have made and excellent observation. However, if Charlie and the Gang want to let Donn sell his pics, that is up to them. It is there site and they make the rules. Your fighting a losing battle. In fact, I wouldn't even be surprised if they start removing your comments. They did it to me. is a great site with great photos...


By Patti, TN on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 10:08 am:

If anyone possesses the same love of the UP, AND talent as a photographer as Donn De Y to capture the beauty thereof, I would encourage all of those people to post their pictures, and offer them for sale. I personally don't care if it is on a separate link, or here in the guest gallery. If you're good enough (and I can think of about 3 others right now) I'll find you and buy :)

By MM on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 10:57 am:

If you're out there, a thousand pardons for yesterday's lame attempt at jocularity, made lamer by my inability to type accurately at more than a snail's pace. Here's an olive branch...

There is a/an young/old man called Wheatman
Many think he is such a dear, sweet man
He writes and he posts
His eloquent notes
And he never does miss a beat, man

My hat's off.

By uper1 on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 12:07 pm:

Patti, the point I was trying to get across is this: If they allow someone to use the guest gallery to advertise and sell items, then they would have to allow everyone to advertise and sell items. And it just doesn't have to be pictures, I should be able to sell anything I would like to there as long as I post a picture. If that be the case and it were allowed, then at the end of the day you will have nothing but another E-Bay or That is not the purpose of the guest gallery. It may also set up a conflict of interest issue for

By Patti, TN on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 12:32 pm:

uper1 Please address me directly from now e-mail is attached.

I more than get your point. The point of this site, as Charlie eloquently wrote is that it is a site dedicated to photographers. If one wishes to sell their prints so be it. I would welcome the opportuity to buy any of the beautiful prints listed here. All "Guest" albums included.

By uper1 on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 01:07 pm:

Sorry Patti, you really don't get it!!

By KM, AZ on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 01:10 pm:

You all have way too much time on your hands to be debating such a riduculous issue.

Maybe you all should just get a life.

By Sissipher, MI on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 01:22 pm:

Good God. You all sound like you are from Troll Land! I think it is great that a good working Yooper can sell something and make an extra buck. I doubt you will see him driving a yupee SUV anytime soon. Get with it people and support others. You are all a joke!

By Anne, MI on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 01:49 pm:

Donn has been quiet throughout this issue. Good for him for not getting involved in such a silly issue (unfortunatly I couldn't resist). IF its not appropriate, Charlie et al will handle it. My first and only comment on this issue - put it to rest!

By Furious on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 03:40 pm:


You need to get a life. Stop worrying about what others do. Are you a sponsor of Pasty? I bet you are not! So therefore you should not be voicing your concerns on this site. I wouldn't miss your ridiculous posts. It is not up to you to make any kind of recommendations as to what any person does on this site. Seems as though you have too much time on your hands. You seem like a very miserable person who has nothing better to do. People like you are the ones who ruin it for everyone.

By Furious on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 03:52 pm:

I also think it's a shame that Donn de Yampert had to remove his prices from his gallery. All because of Uper1 and his obvious jealousy.

By uper1 on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 04:03 pm:

Furious...If you would bother to read the Photo submission policy you would see that the gallery is not for commercial why don't you do YOUR homework before you start throwing stones. I am not jealous of anything, I love Donn's photos, but I also feel that what he did, albeit that he may not have known, was NOT in the best interest of the gallery. I know he is more than welcome to put his photos there, they are indeed beautiful photos. BUT he is not allowed to put price tags on them and use it as a commercial venue to sell his products. I seem to remember that they do make rules for a purpose, I was simply pointing out an infraction, and if you can't understand that, that is your problem!!! The only thing I apologize for is disrupting the message board, I don't apologize for helping in correcting a situation. Have a nice day 'Furious' :)

By want to know on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 05:00 pm:

furious: Why are you so "furious" & "furious"??....are you a close relative??...take a deep breath and calm down, please don't have a stroke....intelligent minds seek justice......dull minds just get mad.

By KM,AZ on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 05:16 pm:

All I know is that I've been looking and enjoying all of the pics on for quite awhile and this is the first (or 2nd actually) time I felt compelled to post a message . . . Uper1 must have been the class tattle tale and, although I agree with Furious on most of what he/she said, I don't believe you have to be a "sponsor" to post a message. I know I'm not.

Please keep all the beautiful pics coming and hey, if you can make a buck . . more power to ya!

By Mary Lou on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 05:49 pm:

Charlie @ pasty central..Where are you? Is there, indeed, a policy regarding commercial use in our guest-gallery?..if so, how was this allowed to happen?.....did Donn know of the policy? Better clear this up before it happens again. We don't need rudness directed at someone who asks a question regarding policy.

By Ron-Valley Sta. Ky. on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 06:01 pm:

How I would have loved to have seen a response on this matter from "Mr. Wheatman" on this subject!
I check out this site every day just to check out the posted pictures and have on accasion, responded with a message of my own. I would not want to see any of the photographers desert the site over a slight misunderstanding.
I love the site and I love the daily dose of scenery, and I for one hope nothing changes!

By uper1 on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 06:12 pm:

Mary Lou, Seeing as I am the one who inflamed the message board today for noting something that I thought was inappropriate for the site, i will tell you where the policy is that explains it. If you go to the Guest Gallery pages, down near the bottom of the page you will find a little blurb that reads 'photo submission policy'. Click on that, it will take you to the sign-up page to submit your pictures. the policy rules are listed here and rule #6 states the site is not intended for commercial use. Donn may have forgotten or just had not read the rules. I was simply trying to correct the situation and it mushroomed like an A-Bomb. It would be great if we could put prices on all our photos and sell them here, but it is simply not allowed. I thought most people would understand. Oh well, better days ahead...:)

By Arnie on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 06:32 pm:

Sure got some people's dander up. Please try to keep it objective and not get personal. A couple of thoughts:

To "Furious", who wrote "Are you a sponsor of Pasty? I bet you are not! So therefore you should not be voicing your concerns on this site".

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a "sponser" in reality a customer? Nice to call them "sponsers" but since Donn and others are paying for a web site on, I don't see that as "sponsering" anything but I suppoose it sounds nice. Also, the obvious, so if you aren't a sponser/customer, then according to "Furious" you aren't allowed to voice a concern here in the cam notes section? Ahh, don't think so.......

I would echo Mary Lou's question: "Charlie @ pasty central..Where are you?" Methinks just moving this topic "off" the daily discussions area should be followed up with an official statement of some kind as to what is going to be permitted on the guest gallery pages. Did you take off Donn's "for sale" images because they didn't comply with the spirit/written policy of posting pictures, or did you take them off in hopes of quelling the discussion about their presence?

For the record, I am a fan of Donn's, I admire his work and like his photography. I peraonally don't think the guest gallery is to be used for commercial purposes.

By Smokey aka Furious on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 06:34 pm:


I just think you need to mind your own business. I don't think the Pasty Central needs you to point this out to them.

TO: Want to know-
No, I am not a relative of Donn de and YES, I am dull. Are you a relative of Uper0? You and Uper need to find something else to indulge in.

By uper1 on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 06:38 pm:

:) :) :) :) :)

By Arnie on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 06:57 pm:

To Smokey aka Furious:

Why do you "assume" that Donn "had to remove his prices from his gallery"? Appears to me that his page was removed by Charley as it happened at the same time this "off topic" discussion was moved from the main page.

If you don't agree with the posted policy of the guest gallery page which states that it is not to be used for commercial use, then why don't you direct your "fury" to for the policy and lay off the personal attacks directed at uper1 who simply pointed it out?

By twincitypackfan,MN on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 07:13 pm:

After reading the notes from the past 2 days makes me think that there are a lot of spring/cabin fevers about...raging at an intense pitch.
Spring is on its way because it's time for my semi-annual pilgrimage to copper harbor to escape the big city.I'll refrain from mentioning where I will stay at so people will not get mad at me for offering a free plug in this note.

By Ms Katie on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 07:49 pm:

How sad that a lovely site has become a place for "computer rage"! Like road rage, it seems to snowball into nasty words made personal! Please folks, be nice to each other. I'd hate to give this site up!

By ztoh on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 08:03 pm:

Dear Uper1,

As I have read this page today there have been many attacks upon both your thoughts and other peoples' thoughts. From the beginning discussion it seems that your goal was for the prices to be taken off of the pictures and this forum to be kept as a place for people to share their talent of picture taking, but not for selling their wares. This goal seems to have been accomplished, but I would encourage you that the next time you have a concern that an infraction has been made maybe the person who has the concern could take the matter to the person who has caused the infraction, or in this case, email the site manager (for lack of the correct title) and express your concern. This way the concern may be addressed, you can understand the policy and, if you are correct, be affirmed in doing something that is helpful. Then in the end people's heart rates do not get excalated for something that is unalterable in their lives. A public discussion was not necessary to accomplish your goal.

By Jed on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 08:34 pm:

AUP Violation IP#

By Mary Drew at Pasty Central on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 11:24 pm:

I've figured out why all the hoopla the last couple days in the postings!!

April 15th....TAX DAY! eek! big scream!

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