discussion about Iraq conflict

Past-E-Mail: Cam Notes - 2003: April: Apr 03-03: discussion about Iraq conflict

Toivo near a mighty BIG canyon on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 01:16 am:

As I've been travelling for several weeks now, it is during a time when a single topic dominates the news on the car radio. Sounds like this story may be approaching its conclusion. They said the troops have moved within 6 miles of Baghdad.

Never been to the desert before. Can't imagine what our men and women must have gone through the last couple of weeks. We mourn for those who will not be coming home.

Donn de Yampert's U.P. shot of a lone eagle seemed an appropriate choice for today's Cam.

Good night from Arizona, and good morning from da' U.P.

By DJB-MI. on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 08:33 am:


By Louise, Baltimore, MD on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 08:57 am:

I am in disagreement with this conflict in Iraq also. I know this is a public posting area, but I believe the beauty and serenity of the Keeweenaw should not be equated in any way with this conflict. I feel that Pasty Cam is not the place for political comment. Use your local papers for that.

By Mr. Wheatman, South end on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 09:00 am:

Kudos on the fine shot indeed. It is evocative of this morning in Baghdad, in which our fine soldiers are poised to oust an evil regime, just as this eagle (how pertinent) is just about to assail it's quarry. May they fight with honor and courage, to leave this world a better place. God bless the troops and our country.


By Ima Yooper on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 09:48 am:

I object to the use of the eagle to symbolize an unjust, unprovoked war waged by an unelected pResident.

By MMLLMI on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 09:49 am:

Whether for or against this action, it is every American's duty to stand behind those who are putting up the potential for the Greatest Sacrifice of ALL their lives. Lets not let any of our brave service men and woman see anything but support for THEM. Forget the quarrelsome "I am against, I am for" argument! Lets unite for those in harm's way!!! Godspeed to them all, and may they come home to our beutiful, land of freedom.

By Mr. Wheatman, South end on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 10:00 am:

As we lean more and more about the atrocities and evils going on in Iraq, (humans being tossed in garbage shredders, tongues cut out for speaking opinions, human shields, kidnapping of children, firing on innocent civilians) it literally amazes me that the entire world is not behind us in this conflict. The world must be rid of such dictators, just as was decided with Hitler. I think we can all agree that the world is a better place without him, as it will be without Hussein.

By M, B/F on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 10:08 am:

We must unite behind our president and our troops. These brave men and women need that right now. I have lots of liberal friends who feel the same way I do. People who ramble on about things that happened in the past need to post somewhere else. Keep your feelings to yourself and away from these brave mem and women.

By Carol, Troll in the Lower MI on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 09:54 am:

Bravo, Louise of Baltimore! I couldn't agree more!!! Please keep the politics out of Pasty Cam.
See the eagle for it's beauty.

By Tina, MI on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 09:54 am:

Well said MMLLMI !!

By East Lansing MI on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 10:00 am:

The Eagle is the symbol of this countrys freedom!To say keep politics out of this room is absurd,to say in this time of conflict-
To see this eagle soaring I feel pride for this great country USA and I 100% support our troops and stand proud and true to the USA and all the efforts of these HEROS fighting overseas.
God Blesss our troops and GOD Bless the USA!

By A 'peace-nik' who supports the troops on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 10:37 am:

Amen, MMLLMI! Lest we forget the nearly 60,000 American killed and the more than 150,000 wounded Americans in Vietnam who were shunned during and after that horrible conflict. Our troops, wherever they are and for whatever reason they are there, deserve our respect, gratitude and prayers. The discussion of whether this is a just or unjust action is moot at this point; no amount of talk will change its course now. Let's try to find more peaceful solutions to other problems in the future, not castigate those who are fighting for our country now.

By . on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 10:57 am:

from the British "Independent" paper:

At least 11 civilians, nine of them children, were killed in Hilla in central Iraq yesterday, according to reporters in the town who said they appeared to be the victims of bombing.

Razzaq Kazem al-Khafaj grieves over the bodies of his children in Hilla in the southern province of Babylon. Khafaj lost 15 members (including six children) of his family as his car was bombed by coalition helicopters while fleeing al-Haidariyeh towards Babylon.(AFP/Karim Sahib)

Reporters from the Reuters news agency said they counted the bodies of 11 civilians and two Iraqi fighters in the Babylon suburb, 50 miles south of Baghdad. Nine of the dead were children, one a baby. Hospital workers said as many as 33 civilians were killed.

Terrifying film of women and children later emerged after Reuters and the Associated Press were permitted by the Iraqi authorities to take their cameras into the town. Their pictures – the first by Western news agencies from the Iraqi side of the battlefront – showed babies cut in half and children with amputation wounds, apparently caused by American shellfire and cluster bombs.

By calumet boy on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 10:59 am:

And dont forget Marshall Kipina Calumet high class of 64,only son of Fritz Kipina, Albion Location who is still missing in Vietnam and all the other copper country boys that lost there lives before this present war--its a long list

By MMLLMI on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 11:08 am:

Well,(.) focus on the casualties of war, would you rather have a mad-man Like Saddam, doing these things without a war going on? Pick the lesser of the evils if nothing else. I for one Back our troops, and support the gift of freedom they give to me!! And if you believe everything you read from an Independent paper, why don't you post your initials or location? Do you fear perhaps your source is not reliable and you don't want to be associated with it if proven wrong? NO ONE WANTS war, but sometimes we have to go with the flow. And All I will do is SUPPORT SUPPORT SUPPORT. I love being a citizen of this GREAT Nation, and continue to love AMERICA, home of the brave and land of the free. I didn't vote for the president prior to the current, and yet I didn't demand that he justify his military actions!!!! In fact, I don't recall ANYONE questioning them.......hmmmmm guess what is good for the goose is NOT good for the gander..

By Robin, MI on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 11:12 am:

I don't know anyone who wants war. We are all antiwar aren't we? But I've got brothers over there who are being so very blessed by the reaction of the people to the help we are providing them. I envy them that part of their service.

I can say there is more to this than the American Public is being told and I hope it stays that way. I don't feel we have to know everything. Classified Information is just that.

Out of all the folks I know over there or on their way, not one has said anything negative about following their Commander In Chief. Not all of them voted for him either. They do however believe in the respect and discipline of our military. They believe God's at the door just waiting to usher us in and that they are currently laying up their riches in heaven if nothing else.

I am not for war either I guess, but I am for standing for something and not playing patty cake with people like Saddam. This country was founded on good men standing and fighting for what they believed in.

I also agree a National Day of Fasting and Prayer would be great and that it would be all that is needed to solve this problem.

By Marc, offshore GoM/Tamarack City on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 11:21 am:

Imagine yourself a 19 yr old girl from W. Va, shot and captured,in Iraq. Imagine being shown comments from HOME saying the war is unjust, the President is wrong, the soldiers are killing women and children, etc., by your captors. Imagine how betrayed and abondoned you would feel. Imagine how your captors would use this against you.
Imagine all this the next time you want to criticize the war, publicly.
We owe it to our young men and women in the armed services, everywhere, to at least temper our comments, I believe.

By Yooper in Indiana on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 11:26 am:

perhaps you should have read a lesson in civics,,,,it is the electoral college that counts, not necessarily the popular vote. Remember,,,your pal Clinton didnt receive over 50% of the popular vote !

By Ima on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 11:33 am:

Ah, yes, the crooked, racist electoral vote in W's brother's state, followed by the installation by the Supreme Court.

By Mr. Wheatman, South end on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 11:34 am:

Well said indeed Marc, I feel for the soldiers who must be subjected to ridicule and disrespect for doing their duty. Also Wheatman must note an error in the above comment. I hope that the readers realize I wanted to say "As we learn more and more about he atrocities and evils" not lean, as I erroneously dictated. We certainly do not want to lean that way. Everyone should realize that there are going to be collateral damage in any war, but the military is doing everything in it's power to keep it to a minimum, and the civilian casualties will certainly be a lot less than the number that would be killed by Hussein himself if we were to leave him alone.

By bj-milford on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 11:34 am:

Food for thought in Sunday's Detroit Free Press.
I don't always agree with Mr Albom's views, but I thought this was well put.


By pine street boy on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 11:40 am:

About 200 yards from your office at STILLWATERS,north east corner of waterworks an ceder street--the little gray house, was the former home of Junior (loopie) Leviska who died prisoner of war in KOREA, said starved to death by fellow prisoner after the war

By Mary on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 11:49 am:

Thanks for the link.....good read!

By Mary on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 11:51 am:

oops....I meant bj-milford....slip of the pointer finger!

By ME on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 12:04 pm:

Hate war, love our young men and women. May God bless and keep them.

By sane person on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 01:00 pm:

multiple/inflamatory postings from the same I.P. address removed.

By David Cloutier - Colorado on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 01:44 pm:

Well it is very obvious from the postings listed above that this is a topic that we all feel very strongly about. I certainly hate the fact that we are at war and am saddened to think of the innocent people who are impacted by our actions. BUT! Let's not forget why we are at war.

Saddam Hussein is a sworn enemy of the US and he harbors radical Islamic terrorist groups who have sworn a Jihad against America and already killed several thousand of our people (innocent women and children).

The regime lead by Saddam Hussein made an absolute mockery of the U.N. peace keeping process and made it obvious that the weapons inspections were nothing but a joke.

Hussein has already invaded one neighboring country, murdered thousands of innocent citizens and when he was finally driven out he attempted to destroy their oil fields and economy.

The criminal regime lead by Saddam Hussein has murdered more than a million innocent Iraqi citizens. The people of Iraq have lived in fear of their lives every day for more than a decade. They do not dare to speak out against the atrocities committed by Husseim and his followers in the Baath party.

The regime has developed an arsenal of chemical and biological weapons and the evidence shows that they were in the process of developing nuclear weapons. The regime has already used chemical weapons on it own people! Does anyone doubt that they wouldn't use them on the rest of the world?

Sure, it would have been nice if a peaceful resolution could have been reached through a resonable negotiation process, but the fact is you cannot reason with an unreasonable person. Saddam Hussein is not reasonable. He is a ruthless, murderous, dictator who seems to enjoy torturing people who disagree with him.

It is amazing to me that these antiwar protestors who are so quick to claim their right to free speech are so quick to forget that that right is nothing less than a gift to us that was bought and paid for with the blood of men and women serving in our armed forces! These people should be ashamed! I wonder if they would be quite so quick to defend Saddam Hussein if they had actually lived under his control! If they had voiced their opinion in Iraq they would be dead by now...

It is amazing to me that countries like France and Germany can speak out in favor of a man like Saddam Hussein a mere 60 years after they themselves were liberated from a murderous leader named Adolph Hitler. Have they really forgotten that it was the United States that liberated them?? And can you imagine how many lives would have been saved if the allies had stopped Hitler before he unleashed his reign of terror on the world that resulted in tens of millions of deaths??

And finally, try to imagine the horror if Saddam Hussein was able to use his terrorist connections to detonate a nuclear device on Americal soil? or release chemical or biological agents? Does anyone really think that we should sit back and wait until after he has produced these weapons, or worse, actually used them, before we try to stop him?

If we, as the strongest nation in the world do not step up to stop him, then who will? Knowing the sacrafices that our troops are making in the name of freedom and justice makes me very proud to say that I am an American...

Let's pray for a quick resolution of this conflict and the safe return of our brave troops.

By unknown on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 02:14 pm:

Dear All,
I really think that we need to be careful when writing a message on here. *Yes, i know everyone has their mind filled with "War". (That's perfectly fine) But, maybe we should not voice our STRONG thoughts on here. I can see people getting very upset about another person's opinion.
Do we need this? No, of course write what you think but write in a clean and senible way.

*We need to remember that many people (young and old) from all over the world can see what has been written.

We also need to uphold our leaders even if we don't except what they are doing. Pray for them.
In this period of time, we need to think and Pray for all. May God Bless you all.

By Mary USA on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 02:21 pm:

David of Colorado:
Hats off to you. God bless you. I too do not believe that war is good, however, sometimes we have to step in for the greater good. I am an american, not Repulican or Democrat. I believe in the United States of America and whether you like the President or not, he is OUR COMMANDER AND CHIEF. RESPECT IS NEEDED FOR OUR LEADERS AND OUR TROOPS not for people that are against all of our freedoms. "Ina" should be praying for Peace, instead of trying to spread disent in our country.

By americans everywhere... on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 02:22 pm:

Sane person - one word... pathetic!

By Former Yooper, AZ on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 02:34 pm:

Freedom of speech is great! More than great! Communication is vital! Why not have this separate Pasty cam? We certainly can learn something from this, for some it's the only communication for the day. For those folks that don't like this, don't log on.

By Lowell MO. on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 02:45 pm:

I for one am not ashamed to put my name to anything I write here as others have done. If you believe so stongly as you have wrote then why are you ashamed or afraid to put your name to it. I believe in supporting our President, Our Government,an especially our brave men and women whereever they are supporting our country. If they were not doing this then all of the complainers on this page without names would not be able to do this. If they were in Iraq they would take you out in the street and tie you to a stake and cut your tounge out just for saying such things. "GOD BLESS AMERICA" and GOD BLESS ALL OF OUR TROOPS FIGHTING FOR OUR SAFTY AND FREEDOM ESPECIALLY FREEDOM OF SPEECH"
Lowell La Fave Missouri

By Mary on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 02:45 pm:

sane person's comments sound a bit slanderous to me.

Not sure how many have heard Clint Black's new song: "I Raq and I Roll ", but there's one verse that pretty much says it all.



By D J Ca. on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 03:27 pm:

Sure glad Gore wasn't president on 9/11. We'd still be apologizing for puting those buildings in the path of those airplanes.

By Sherry in FL on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 03:51 pm:

David Cloutier, Thank you for your words, I feel pretty much the same. The USA is the greatest country on earth, if it was not why then are so many people trying to get here (legal or illegal).

The Truth. OK if you do not want to pray to God, then pray to the trees, sun or what ever you want to. But in these times we all need help to try to make sense of some of the things that are happening all around the world.

For myself I thank God everyday for my life, my family, my health, my country and yes for the brave men and women defending us so that we can live the way we do. My husband served 4 years in Vietnam, he and I both support our president (even if we did not vote for him).

By Cori, MN but soon coming home to the U.P. to stay! on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 04:48 pm:

Blair's got flair! I never thought I'd be much of a fan of Prime Minister Tony Blair (Margaret Thatcher was more my style), but you have to admire the guy for his leadership in the Iraq war. This link takes you to a speech he gave in which he outlined very clearly the argument for going to war with Iraq. I encourage everyone to read the speech in its entirety, particularly those who think that the "case has not been made" to go to war.


He does say some things that are a tad anti-American, but, hey, he is still Tony Blair after all.

God bless our President and our troops!

By David Cloutier, Colorado on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 05:35 pm:

Cori - MN:
Shortly after the 911 attack I recall being very impressed at the way in which Tony Blair stood with President Bush to condemed terrorism, but the speech printed at the link you provided is one of the most compelling addresses I have ever seen. We are very fortunate to have a statesman of Mr. Blair's caliber to help guide world policy during these troubled times. What a fine example of leadership.

By DN IL. on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 06:21 pm:

freedom is never free, we must pay the price in one way or another, and it is always better to stop the problems when they are small than to wait and have it on our door step. Remember 12 years this guy Sadam kept the U.N. from doing its job. God Bless our troops.

By Keith, Boston Location, MI on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 07:50 pm:

The peace we make in Iraq will be infinitely more important, and hopefully more enduring, than the war.

The Iraqi are a proud and patriotic people who live in the cradle of civilization, the land of Adam and Eve. If America is a truly great people, we will honor this history, this land, this people--as IF it were our own.

We will "give" the Iraqi people nothing, but, in our wisdom, show them a road to their own greatness--as they see it. The idea is not to raise our flag in their land, but to end the oppression keeping the Iraqis from raising the banners of their own liberties.

Let us have faith that Iraqi pride and patriotism will seize this moment that Coalition blood and effort bought for them.

Expect no thanks. What we do is for justice and honor, gifts we give ourselves. And rather than preach our beliefs to them, is it not better to simply show them the radiance of our discoveries?--justice, through the rule of LAW not man.

For America to do any less, or any more, will be the most grievous mistake.

By Doug on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 08:04 pm:

Saying that it is all right to dissent until we are at war and then we must back our president, is like saying that once you break into someones home, you might as well burgle as you are already there. This is a very weak argument.

By David S on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 08:13 pm:

Response to David in Colorado:
You hit the nail right on the head; and rest assured that most Americans feel the same way. Freedom ain't free. If this was 1940, these anti-war pacifists would be siding with Hitler claiming that all war is evil and wrong. We've been through all this before. You would think that these government bashing Hollywood types would learn after a while, but I guess not.

By Doug on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 08:39 pm:

And although I disagreed with my government both in the 60's and now, unlike the Hollywood types, when my country called, I did respond. 28Sept70 thru 01April72. I was there. How many of you were?

By R A on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 08:44 pm:

As Americans, we have a right to question our government and its actions. However, while there is a time to criticize, there is also a time to follow in complacent silence. And that time is now.
It's one thing to question our leaders in the days leading up to a war. But it is another thing entirely to do it during a war. Once the blood of young men starts to spill, it is our duty as citizens not to challenge those responsible for spilling that blood. We must remove the boxing gloves and put on the kid gloves. That is why, in this moment of crisis, I should not be allowed to say the following things about America:
Why do we purport to be fighting in the name of liberating the Iraqi people when we have no interest in violations of human rights—as evidenced by our habit of looking the other way when they occur in China, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Syria, Burma, Libya, and countless other countries? Why, of all the brutal regimes that regularly violate human rights, do we only intervene militarily in Iraq? Because the violation of human rights is not our true interest here. We just say it is as a convenient means of manipulating world opinion and making our cause seem more just.
That is exactly the sort of thing I should not say right now.
This also is not the time to ask whether diplomacy was ever given a chance. Or why, for the last 10 years, Iraq has been our sworn archenemy, when during the 15 years preceding it we traded freely in armaments and military aircraft with the evil and despotic Saddam Hussein. This is the kind of question that, while utterly valid, should not be posed right now.
And I certainly will not point out our rapid loss of interest in the establishment of democracy in Afghanistan once our fighting in that country was over. We sure got out of that place in a hurry once it became clear that the problems were too complex to solve with cruise missiles.
That sort of remark will simply have to wait until our boys are safely back home.
Here's another question I won't ask right now: Could this entire situation have been avoided in the early 1990s had then-U.S. ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie not been given sub rosa instructions by the Bush Administration to soft-pedal a cruel dictator? Such a question would be tantamount to sedition while our country engages in bloody conflict. Just think how hurtful that would be to our military morale. I know I couldn't fight a war knowing that was the talk back home.
Is this, then, the appropriate time for me to ask if Operation Iraqi Freedom is an elaborate double-blind, sleight-of-hand misdirection ploy to con us out of inconvenient civil rights through Patriot Acts I and II? Should I wonder whether this war is an elaborate means of distracting the country while its economy bucks and lurches toward the brink of a full-blown depression? No and no.
True patriots know that a price of freedom is periodic submission to the will of our leaders—especially when the liberties granted us by the Constitution are at stake. What good is our right to free speech if our soldiers are too demoralized to defend that right, thanks to disparaging remarks made about their commander-in-chief by the Dixie Chicks?
When the Founding Fathers authored the Constitution that sets forth our nation's guiding principles, they made certain to guarantee us individual rights and freedoms. How dare we selfishly lay claim to those liberties at the very moment when our nation is in crisis, when it needs us to be our most selfless? We shame the memory of Thomas Jefferson by daring to mention Bush's outright lies about satellite photos that supposedly prove Iraq is developing nuclear weapons.
At this difficult time, President Bush needs my support. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld needs my support. General Tommy Franks needs my support. It is not my function as a citizen in a participatory democracy to question our leaders. And to exercise my constitutional right—nay, duty—to do so would be un-American.

By J, MI on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 09:19 pm:

We are blessed to live in a country where we can have our own individual opinion AND express it. However, now is the time to stand united and be supportive of our government and servicemen. One bit of trivia here. There was a rock n' roll song in the '60's called "War". It was very popular and I remember playing it over and over and over again (we had the 45!), until mother finally said to STOP! She was sick of hearing it. Anyway, the guy who sang it died today. Anyone remember his name?

By Charlie at Pasty Central on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 09:27 pm:


The singer was Edwin Starr, died of a heart attack yesterday at age 61.

By Rivera on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 11:16 pm:

Indeed, the Neville "Peace in our Time" Chamberlains of the world are destined for the scrap heap of history. Freedom is only preserved through strength, not groveling (a la the pagan UN) at the feet of despots for fear of conflict.

God Bless America, God Bless our Troops

By MMLLMI on Thursday, April 3, 2003 - 11:28 pm:

My heartfelt thanks to David in Colorado and Mr. Wheatman. VERY WELL EXPRESSED THOUGHTS!! And R A, well, I guess our consititution grants you the freedom of speech as well, I am glad to live in a place that grants that. Although you said "no" to what we shouldn't be doing you managed to get your point across. I LOVE America. And Am THANKFULL beyond expression for those soldiers putting their life on the line for ME!!! I can't thank them personally, but I hope a few of them log onto pasty.com and can see that I CANNOT thank them enough. GODSPEED! AND THANK-YOU! I am also thankful for a commander in chief that believes in God, and has morals, admits his shortcomings, and got my vote as well. I like to exercise my right to vote, I wonder how many that are complaining actually DID get out and vote in the 2000 election. Those that are still "whining" about a "not fair" win of the election......really, give it up....2004 is just around the corner. Get out, register, and cast your vote. We do have that right. I back my president if I voted for him or not. I feel it is a duty as an American citizen. And, I will get out and vote again in the next election....USE YOUR GIFTS AS A CITIZEN, or you really don't have a right to complain!

By Yoosta Be- Lower MI. on Friday, April 4, 2003 - 02:50 am:

I think the alarm clock has been buzzing since 1979 and we have continued to hit the Snooze Button and roll over for a few more minutes of peacefull sleep since then. It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students attacked and seized the Americian Embassy in Tehran.This seizure was an out right attack on American soil.It was a attack that held the world's most powerfull country hostage and paralyzed a Presidency. The attack on this sovereign US embassy set the stage for the events to follow for the next 23 years. America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Viet Nam experience and had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President Carter had to do something.He chose to conduct a clandestineraid in the desert. The ill-fated mission ended in ruin,but stood as a symbol of America's inability to deal with terrorism.America's military had been decimated and downsized since the end of the Viet Nam war.A poorly trained and equipped and organized military was called on to execute a complex mission that was doomed from the start.Shortly after the Tehran experience,American's began to be kidnapped and killed throughout the Middle East.America could do little to protect her citizens living and working abroad.The attacks against the US continued.In April 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven into the US Embassy compound in Beirut. When it explodes,it killed 63 people.The alarm went off and America hit the Snooze Button once more. Then six months later a large truck heavily laden down with over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine Corps headquarters in Beirut killing 241 US servicemen.America mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more.Two months later Dec.1983, another truck loaded with explosives is driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait,and America continues her slumber. The following year,in Sept.1984 once again into the gates of the US Embassy in Beirut.Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe.April 1985 a bomb explodes in a restaurant with US soldiers inside in Madrid.In August a Volkswagon loaded with explosives blows up the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main 22 killed,and the Snooze Alarm is still buzzing louder and louder as US soil is continualy attacked. Fifty-nine days later the cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked as we watched an Amecican in a wheelchair is singled out of the passenger list and executed.The terrorist then shift their tactics to boombing civillan airliners.TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986 killed four.Pan AM Flight 103 over Lockerbie Scotland in 1988, killing 259.America wants to treat these terrorists acts as crimes, we are still trying to bring these people to trial.These are acts of war.Terrorists in Jan.1993 kill two CIA agents at headquartes in Langley,Virginia.The next month Feb.1993,a group of terrorists are arrested after a van packed with explosives is driven into the underground parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City.Six killed and over a 1000 injured.Still this is a crime and not an act of war.The Snooze alarm is depressed again.Yet another car bomb Nov.1995 at a US military complex in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia killing seven service men and women.Afew months later June of 1996 another bomb explodes US military compound in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia destroys the Khobar Towers killing 19 and injuring 500.My point is people,the terrorists are getting brave and smarter as they see that America dose not respond decisively.The President is right on when he says we are engaged in a war.I belive we have been in a war since 1979.It's time we get out of bed and act decisively now!Sept.11 th.was not the first attack.You don't have to be in the FBI or CIA, or National Security to see the pattern that has been developing since 1979.We have to be ready to pay the price and make the sacrifice to ensure our way of life continues.We can not afford to hit the Snooze Button again and roll over and go back to sleep. We have to make the terrorists know that in the words of Admiral Yamamoto after the attack on Pearl Harbor"that all they have done is to awaken a sleeping giant"

By Yooper in Indiana on Friday, April 4, 2003 - 08:22 am:

Nice thoughts by some of our leaders,,,,Sen Kerry,,,While we are over throwing the regiem of Iraq, now is the time to plan an overthrowing of a regiem within our own country,,,,,Rep Pelozi of Ca,,,,who does not support our actions in Iraq, is telling the San Franciscan's to keep up the portest.( they protest everything anyway)...and Lets not forget the Senator from the Dakota's,,,,Sen Dashile. Just watch or listen to O'Reilly to understand what is happening, in a fair and balanced reproting.

By Mary Lou on Friday, April 4, 2003 - 08:28 am:

"DO NOT TREAD ON US"......9/11 finally made us: "Mad as H--- and we are not going to take it anymore!!!" ENOUGH ALREADY!!!.......Bless our heros who carried the torch from our previous generations of heros......their fore-fathers are proud..and so are we!!

By Connie, Ft. Belvoir VA on Friday, April 4, 2003 - 10:52 am:

I thought anti-war protestors were supposed to be here to promote peace? Why are some of them violent? Not far from here, a woman and her children were stuck in traffic. She had a DOD sticker on her vehicle (identifying her being affiliated with the military) her car was surrounded by protestors, it was keyed, rocked, profanities were shouted at her. She and her children were inside screaming scared to death.
What was the point of that? We all need to stand behind our troops and their families. Support them!

By David Cloutier - Colorado on Friday, April 4, 2003 - 11:59 am:

Certainly one of the most important components of a successful democracy is the free exchange of information. Our ability to freely discuss issues is vital to our future. In addition, this is how we learn new things and grow as human beings. Imagine a world in which everyone’s opinion was exactly the same... how stagnant and boring would that be? To me, hearing someone else's perspective on a subject is interesting and more often than not I realize that I wasn't seeing the whole picture.

As you review the comments posted above, you find many thoughtful and well expressed opinions that reflect BOTH sides of the argument concerning the use of military force to disarm Iraq.

However, it is interesting that you also find a few comments that were so inflammatory that they were considered inappropriate and as a result, Charlie later removed them.

In a sense this situation is a small reflection of how people in our society express themselves. The vast majority of people are able to find an appropriate means to express their opinions, whether it is through writing letters, voting, or peaceful demonstration.

However, as we have witnessed here, there are a few people, who for whatever reason, are unable to express themselves in an appropriate fashion. These people find in necessary to resort to anger, violence, insults and law-breaking. What they do not seem to realize is that by engaging in inappropriate behaviors they discredit their position.

I'm sure that many would agree that terrorism is the most inappropriate means of expressing ones position. Terrorism eats at the fundamental values and freedoms that we in civilized society hold so dear. It is an attempt to intimidate those who do not agree with you. In the same way, the regime lead by Saddam Hussein controlled the people of Iraq. Anyone who disagreed was eliminated. He is the ultimate terrorist.

It seems to me that the solution to terrorism lies in persuading those responsible for committing terrorist acts to find an acceptable means of expressing their opinions. This can be accomplished either by educating them or eliminating them. Since 1979 we have more or less "turned the other cheek" to terrorism and clearly, that has not worked. Terrorists have only grown more bold. I believe it is time to engage a more proactive approach.

We fancy ourselves the "Greatest Nation in the World". But, let's be sure to lead with greatness, which includes compassion, humility and respect.

By pa on Friday, April 4, 2003 - 01:40 pm:

To David C: Thank you.

By Suomalainen on Friday, April 4, 2003 - 09:08 pm:

To David C - Wonderfully said!

By food for thought on Saturday, April 5, 2003 - 02:47 am:

The anti-war movement supports our troops by urging that they be brought home immediately so they neither kill nor get killed in a unjust war. How has the Bush administration shown its support for our troops?

a. The Republican-controlled House Budget Committee voted to cut $25 billion in veterans benefits over the next 10 years.

b. The Bush administration proposed cutting $172 million from impact aid programs which provide school funding for children of military personnel.

c. The administration ordered the Dept. of Veterans Affairs to stop publicizing health benefits available to veterans.

d. All of the above.

Answer and Sources
1. d (a) Cong. Lane Evans, "Veterans Programs Slashed by House Republicans," Press Release, 3/13/03,
http://www.veterans.house.gov/democratic/press/108th/3-13-03budget.htm. (b) Brian Faler, "Educators Angry Over Proposed Cut in Aid; Many Children in Military Families Would Feel Impact," Washington Post, 3/19/03, p. A29. (c) See Veterans' for Common Sense, letter to George W. Bush, 3/20/03 http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/print.asp?id=563; Melissa B. Robinson, "Hospitals Face Budget Crunch," Associated Press, 7/31/02; Jason Tait, "Veterans angered by marketing ban," Eagle-Tribune (Lawrence, MA), 8/2/02, http://www.eagletribune.com/news/stories/20020802/FP_003.htm

By suzyanniebell on Saturday, April 5, 2003 - 03:59 am:

All i can say is WOW!

By Mary Lou on Saturday, April 5, 2003 - 12:09 pm:

In my opinion there is nothing too good for our veterans and their families. We asked them to risk their lives for us.....Let's insist that our government do what is right for the veterans of this war and past wars. They deserve the best we can offer. I found paying my IRS taxes this year to be a good-thing. I felt that in some small way I was doing something for my country.....Bless those who are willing to serve this blessed country...

By Bob in the UP on Saturday, April 5, 2003 - 03:07 pm:

FREEDOM ISN'T FREE, if you dont't like this country or others that are free then don't live in them.

By Jarvi in Korea on Saturday, April 5, 2003 - 07:20 pm:

As a Yooper and a trooper stationed in Korea, I only have this one thing to say.........Take Saddam Out!!! Nobody wants war, but sometimes you need to root out what is evil in this world.

By faux new watcher, mi on Sunday, April 6, 2003 - 02:22 pm:

not sure how many have heard this pearl jam song, first two verses go like this;


How does he do it? How do they do it? Uncanny and immutable.
This is such a happening tailpipe of a party.
Like sugar, the guests are so refined, (look like melting mice)

A confidence man, but why so beleagued?
He's not a leader, he's a Texas leaguer
Swinging for the fence, got lucky with a strike
Drilling for fear, makes the job simple
Born on third, thinks he got a triple

well, later I have to move to iraq now so I'll have some bush paid health insurance

By k on Thursday, May 8, 2003 - 07:59 pm:

It's over...
Just testing to see if this is still up !!!!

By Umair Badmash on Saturday, August 16, 2003 - 01:38 pm:

Hello Kaisay hoo meray bachay

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