sub-topic: Religion

Past-E-Mail: Cam Notes - 2003: March: Mar 03-03: sub-topic: Religion
Charlie at Pasty Central on Tuesday, March 4, 2003 - 09:51 am:

March 3
A bit of a debate developed with the posting of Monday's picture, triggered in part by comments about '3/3/3'. Messages along this thread of the conversation have been moved here. Please avoid inflamatory remarks, and feel free to express well considered opinions.
David S. - FL on Monday, March 3, 2003 - 10:15 pm:

To answer John-Canton; contrary to the popular media trend of anti-religion, anti-God, anti-morality and anti-standards, yes, religion is important and positive to hundreds of millions of people around this planet. And these people of faith in a superior being should be able to express their belief as freely as those people who believe that this incredible life experience came from nothing more than a big bang dirt blast. (The dirt blast is a religion, too.)

By Josef OH on Monday, March 3, 2003 - 11:11 pm:

Religion is something man tries to give to God.
Spirituality is something God gives to man, freely! It's still a beautiful world, if we care to see it and God "so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son" to save it.

By Donna on Tuesday, March 4, 2003 - 04:59 am:

Hey...we are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.

Let the postings continue! Many blessings, love and light.

By Doug MI on Tuesday, March 4, 2003 - 06:32 am:

Praise be to God on high. How can anyone deny that God is God when you see the photos of the land that He created. God be with you all.

By FC MI on Tuesday, March 4, 2003 - 06:50 am:

John from Canton apparently hasn't heard that God's Area Code is 906!

By Keep_Your_Religion_To_yourself on Tuesday, March 4, 2003 - 08:24 am:

"I cannot see how a man of any large degree of humorous perception can ever be religious -- unless he purposely shut the eyes of his mind & keep them shut by force."

-- Mark Twain, Frederick Anderson, ed., Mark Twain's Notebooks and Journals (1979), notebook 27, August 1887-July 1888, quoted from James A. Haught, "Breaking the Last Taboo" (1996)

By You_are_free_to_disbelieve on Tuesday, March 4, 2003 - 08:36 am:

"I was dead. He called me to life and called me to come forth. I did."

--Lazurus, First Century, as recounted in the Holy Bible, John 11.

By majority opinion, I think on Tuesday, March 4, 2003 - 09:02 am:

John- If you can't take it-you can leave.....its your choice.

By John on Tuesday, March 4, 2003 - 09:19 am:

Wow, intolerance and self-righteousness--true marks of the religious!

By Doug MI on Tuesday, March 4, 2003 - 09:24 am:

Isaiah 42:16 "I will lead the blind in ways that they have not known, and along unfamiliar paths I will guide them. I will turn darkness into light before them and make the rough places smooth. These are the things I will do, I will not forsake them.

Open your eyes John.

By N.L. on Tuesday, March 4, 2003 - 10:08 am:

Sometimes it is better to say nothing than to
publicize ignorance.

By Keeper of the faith on Tuesday, March 4, 2003 - 10:13 am:

"This is the day the LORD hath made, let us rejoice and be glad"

By Carl - Hartland, Mi. on Tuesday, March 4, 2003 - 10:04 am:

Since when doesn't freedom of speech apply to persons of faith? Why is it politically correct to be intolerant of religion in this age of "tolerance?" My freedom to express what I believe is as sacred as your freedom to disagree. This freedom to dialogue is part of what makes America great.
This site is a breath of fresh air every day thanks to Charlie and Toivo! If they choose to restrict what messages get posted all they have to do is publish a set of guidelines and enforce those guidelines equally and fairly. Please let's not start down the slippery slope of selective censorship!

By Mary Lou on Tuesday, March 4, 2003 - 11:02 am:

I really do not care to get into this debate, however......Thank God, Charlie is back safe and sound..we missed you but Toivo did a super job ...Welcome home Charlie and Edie!!

By Charlie at Pasty Central on Tuesday, March 4, 2003 - 11:28 am:

Thanks, Mary Lou. Good to be home. The thermometer in Chassell said minus 19 degrees when we rolled in. Quite a shock from the 60+ we had down south.

By the way, on our vacation we saw the movie, "Gods and Generals", the prequel to "Gettysburg". It is a fascinating view of the Civil War through the eyes of individuals with deeply spiritual, but opposing viewpoints. Some of the comments on today's discussion about freedom of religion (or non-religion) are explored in the story. We highly recommend the movie as a worthwhile way to invest about 4 or 5 hours (It is quite long.)

By FC MI on Tuesday, March 4, 2003 - 11:55 am:

Charlie, Welcome back and I want to thank you for letting people post on another thread on this subject as it distracted from the other one - the photographer's pictures and people's comments. This way if people want to voice their opinion on the comment made - they can freely do so. God Bless you and everyone at and yes, God's children who are not afraid to admit publically that they are followers of Him.

By Ned20 on Tuesday, March 4, 2003 - 12:35 pm:

Sure hope that this forum works to eliminate the religion thread which started.

I think that most of the people who check in here daily do it to view the nice images and read/partake of the discussion about the UP and things that are unique to it. The history aspect is also interesting.

However, if you have controversial subjects such as religion, abortion, politics and gun ownership, it will probably turn into a fiasco that will quickly deter many people from visiting the site except for those who are "into" convincing others of their viewpoint.

For example, take a look at the letters to the editor on the Mining Gazette (Houghton) web site. Seems that the same people are writing about their point of view about reliqious beliefs. It is obviously a hot topic for them, but probably not for the majority of readers (otherwise there would be more people writing about it?)

Nothing against religion. There are many forums to discuss it, please don't throw it in my face so to speak, in the daily cam notes. Thanks.

Just my 2 cents.

By AA on Tuesday, March 4, 2003 - 12:41 pm:

I don't think that anyone has a problem with anyone "admitting publicly they are followers of Him", as long as they use the correct venue in which to do it. Thanks for the separate thread, Charlie, and welcome back

By Carl - Hartland, Mi. on Tuesday, March 4, 2003 - 05:25 pm:

Thanks Charlie. You're a real pro! Welcome Back! Toivo did a great job filling in but he probably needs a break to do a little ice fishing . . .
The "separate thread" technique to handle the controversial topic was a stroke of brilliance. I totally agree that this site is far too good to degrade into a social forum (there are enough of those already). Its only natural for the natural beauty of your photos to elicit praise of the wonder of God's creation (I thought the "God's area code is 906" was really cute!). The cheap shot (my opinion) posting was unnecessary and certainly drew a bunch of reaction. Thanks again for handling the situation so professionally.

By Charlie at Pasty Central on Tuesday, March 4, 2003 - 06:30 pm:

Thanks, Carl. Actually, instead of ice fishing, Toivo will be doing a little traveling himself. I understand he's heading for the state of Washington soon. Says he misses his duct tape, whatever that means.

By Katherine D. in G.R. on Tuesday, March 4, 2003 - 07:25 pm:

Just My 2 Cents...The inspiration of Michigan's beauty is In My Face every time I look at a map. Someone's hand print.

By John-Canton on Tuesday, March 4, 2003 - 08:53 pm:

Guess I stirred things up a bit. I am also a believer but do not think this is the proper forum. Ned20`s comments above put it better than
I could. Thanks. By some of responses I guess it`s
fine with some people to post thier opinion and
will let others only if they agree with them.
Hey-I do not even have anything against prayer
in schools-so I`m not a hard-liner. Lets keep this great site about the U.P.
Be up in South Range in May. Hope I dont get

By Proud Yooper - MI on Tuesday, March 4, 2003 - 11:40 pm:

Looks like no more postings so all I want to say is "Amen!"

By poker basics on Saturday, July 30, 2005 - 07:25 pm:

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By Texas Holdem hand ranking on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 08:55 pm:

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By buy •••••• on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 04:26 am:

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