Sep 12-03

Past-E-Mail: Cam Notes - 2003: September: Sep 12-03
Hunter's Point    ...scroll down to share comments
Photo by Karen Karl

By
Toivo, homesick near Wellington, NZ on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 04:32 am:

Get the whole story at - -

Hunter's Point
www.hunters-point.org

By Kevin K. Lodi, Ca. on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 06:23 am:

Good Morning Pasty cammers,
Just want to send out a warning about a message that I recieved in my email. It was from 1-800-flowers.com stating that I had ordered $98.00 worth of roses and that it would be charged to my AOL account, There is a connecting site to go to in order to cancel or review your order. What happens is when you go to this site it sends out your password and email address to who ever sent the message. Then they use your address to send the message out to more people. AOL disconnected me last night due to the fact that my address had sent this out to "Thousands" of people. Took me half an hour to convince them I had nothing to do with it. If you get the message don't connect to the site just delete, or report it as spam. Sorry this is long winded, just wanted to save people the trouble I had. Oh yea, now I'm getting emails from upset people who are telling me they did not order flowers. Have a good day All.


By Troll in Eagle Harbor on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 06:24 am:

I got here first today!!!WOOHOO!!!Happy Friday everyone!


By Troll in E.H. on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 06:26 am:

ALright....second and third!Happy Friday anyway..


By Mary Ann, Bloomington, IN on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 08:02 am:

Hunter's Point, one of my favorite places in the U.P. So tranquil; I can feel my blood pressure lowering just thinking about it. Thanks for the beautiful shot.

Mary Ann


By lindalouwho,kazoo,mi on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 08:11 am:

oh man, the leaves can't be changing already! Yoopers, when can my husband and I take a ride UP and find the trees at peek color..say Paradise area..does it look like the colors is going to come in early this year?


By lane, madison hts, mi on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 08:15 am:

good morning,
beautiful picture,
can the colors be changing already?


By Deb - Michigan on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 08:20 am:

TGIF! The colors are trying to change already, so the next season isn't far behind. Better get all my outside chores done so I can get out and enjoy fall, my favorite and our most beautiful season of all. It reminds me why I love to live here in the Copper Country.


By Therese, Harbor Springs, MI on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:27 am:

Ahhh, Hunters Point. I made the long ride up the Keweenaw for the first time a week ago. The next morning I walked around the bay to the point and was enchanted. My idea of Heaven on earth is a picnic on the beach there, watching the weather blow in.


By Tina, Howell, MI on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 09:41 am:

What a lovely picture. I'm so glad to see such unspoiled beauty. I wish Livingston County could be so lucky!


By lost in da keweenaw on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 10:00 am:

remembering Johnny Cash, passed away early this morning!


By Troll,Ferndale on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 10:30 am:

And John Ritter. Such a shock!


By Dave M., Lansing on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 10:56 am:

You can get more information on the 1-800-flowers scam by going to this site: http://www.clickondetroit.com/consumer/2303901/detail.html. Also, putting "800-flowers scam" through google will return many, many hits discussing this particular scam.

To be on topic, I've already sent my donation to the Hunter's Point people.


By Dave, Dearborn, MI. on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 11:43 am:

Is hunters point the one where the trail starts at the marina? If so I remember my short hike out to the Superior shore. Spectacular! After that I took the lighthouse tour. One day I hope to do it again.


By Lesley on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 01:09 pm:

If you want to "do it again," to continue hiking out to
Hunter's Point, send them some money! Any amount,
$5, $20, $100 - ANYTHING, will help. The response
has been great, but they still need some more to buy
the point and keep it open to public access. It's a
secure site, easy to use a credit card.


By Lesley on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 01:12 pm:

And Dave in Dearborn .... my message wasn't directed
at you personally - it was a general reminder to
everyone to send money, if you can! I've sent in a
donation and would really hate to see the point
developed, so please help if you can.


By DK - Yooper stuck out East on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 01:14 pm:

Pasty Cammers,
Information please!
I have a "friendly" wager with someone out here in New Jersey that there is a lake on an island, in a lake, that is bigger than the largest lake in New Jersey. That would be Siskiwit Lake on Isle Royale. The largest lake in NJ is Lake Hopatcong which is 2500 acres or about 4 square miles.
Does anyone know how big Siskiwit Lake is?
Thanks!


By Troll, MI on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 01:57 pm:

DK - Yooper stuck out east:
Maybe if you go to Isle Royale site and email them at
irnha@irnha.com. Maybe they could give you a quicker answer. Good luck.


By Mike B. Pittsburgh...Wishin I was back in the Yoop on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 02:02 pm:

According to this site(http://gorp.away.com/gorp/location/mi/hik_isro3.htm), Siskiwit Lake is both the largest and the deepest lake on Isle Royale at 7 miles long and 140 feet deep. No mention there of it's exact size, though.


By danbury; germany on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 02:08 pm:

So, development or conservation again, huh?
Perhaps it's your own fault, with a site like pasty.cam attracting more and more people from elsewhere to the UP(;-). And they of course have to live somewhere, though I am sure this must not necessarily take place on the most beautiful spots around - or the access.
I seem to recall that there was at least one place in the US with a restriction on people moving into the area - Portland, OR, perhaps.
Probably worth thinking about it, though rather brutal on the other hand. Always a judging of consequences, it is.
Why there have to be so many people anyway I have not yet found out.


By Troll, MI on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 02:09 pm:

DK-Stuck out East:
I went to yahoo and typed in Siskiwit, MI and got a lot of info. I got this info listed below in No.6 and when you get into the site, also scroll down to No.14 and it has several pictures of the lake.

Siskiwit Bay (SIS-ki-wit), large inlet, SE side of Isle Royale, L. Superior, N Mich., 12 mi/19 km long, 3 mi/4.8 km wide, separated from lake by small peninsula and isl. chain, in Isle Royale Natl. Park; 4754'N 8855'W. Also known as Siskiwit L.


By Karen P, MN on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 02:37 pm:

DK-Stuck out East and Troll,
Siskiwit Bay and Siskiwit Lake should not be confused. They are separate entities. If you go to
http://www.nps.gov/carto/PDF/ISROmap1.pdt you will get a very nice map of Isle Royal. It shows Siskiwit Lake as being about 1.5 X 6.5 miles. It contains several islands including Ryan Island. Without taking into acount rounding the edges, this lake would be about 12 square miles.


By Karen P, MN on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 02:37 pm:

DK-Stuck out East and Troll,
Siskiwit Bay and Siskiwit Lake should not be confused. They are separate entities. If you go to
http://www.nps.gov/carto/PDF/ISROmap1.pdt you will get a very nice map of Isle Royal. It shows Siskiwit Lake as being about 1.5 X 6.5 miles. It contains several islands including Ryan Island. Without taking into acount rounding the edges, this lake would be about 12 square miles.


By Dam Guy, Parasite Creek on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 02:56 pm:

As long as we're remembering dead celebrities, let's not forget Larry Hovis, who also passed away this week. Hovis played Carter, the demolitions guy on Hogan's Heroes...


By Disgruntled Yooper on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 02:58 pm:

danbury; germany
I agree 100% with your comment. With the area tourist council marketing this area as a premier recreational spot, we are being overrun with snowmobilers, skiers, etc. Granted this is probably the only boost this areas economy will see to survive, it comes with a high price tag of development. Personally, I will struggle on low wages and high inflation to continue to live here. It is my personal choice. But the beauty and the tranquility enjoyed here is now endangered. Everybody wants a piece to develop.
If you want the city wage index and lifestyle, stay there!!!


By Karen P on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 03:42 pm:

Sorry to all who tried my internet connection to Isle Royale Map. I just tried to access it from this site and failed, repeatedly. Here's how I found the map. Go to Google and type in Isle Royale to search. Entry 2 is a Virtual Visitor Center for Isle Royale. Click on this. At that site, scroll down to Maps of Isle Royale. Click on the words "For a Park Map". There are various selections. The Adobe Acrobat PDF is what I chose. Good luck.


By missing the Yoop on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 03:48 pm:

My husband once saw a bumper sticker that read
"Welcome to California. Now go home." Maybe we can
start pushing that as the Yooper slogan instead of "Say
Ya to da UP, eh?"


By Troll in EH on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 04:15 pm:

HEY,'Missing the Yoop"!a few years ago,I saw a bumper sticker that read,"Welcome to the Keweenaw where the weak are killed and eaten".I also got a chuckle out of the one that said"I like snow birds.They taste like chicken"Just thought I'd pass them on for you to ponder...


By Missing the UP too, WA on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 05:06 pm:

I like "Welcome to da Yoop; now get goin!" Sounds like a great UP bumper sticker to me. If anyone markets it, I'd like some.


By Lowell MO> on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 05:16 pm:

I found this web site:http://www.terragalleria.com/index.html it has all the parks in it and has some good pictures of Isle Royal and one od them is of Siskiwit Lake. Also found another web site which is for Little Siskiwit Lake in Wi. Didn't know they also had a lake so named.


By Lowell MO. on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 05:31 pm:

As a side note to above info. I have this search engine that I use called Web Ferret. Just for kicks I went there to see what info I could find out about the Lake. Had all kinds of info brought up including the Gallery Pictures from Pasty.net showing the pictures of Siskiwit Lake.
Just thought you might like to know that your pictures and info does get around. Always enjoy the pictures and the comments. Thanks Charlie for a great site.


By Jim Copper Country on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 05:37 pm:

re Siskiwit Lake and Ryan Island...Isle Royale

Can't resist joining in THIS discussion....(and not wanting an argument re Lake Superior vs Lake Baikal).....Ryan Island is the largest island in the largest lake on the largest island in the largest lake!


By Steve the Troll on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 05:40 pm:

I actually know one of the fellows building a house on Fake Lake up by Copper Harbor. As a retired executive who likes things neat and clean, it is only a matter of time before the fences and restrictions start going up while they winter in FL and the locals are on the outside looking in. Be very careful of Yuppie development, because although they say they love the area, they can not wait to change it to what they left behind. I have seen it happen too many times in other beautiful places.


By Steve the Troll on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 05:50 pm:

Hunters Point could be a perfect example, and once it is gone, it is gone for good...........


By Sandy, Under the Bridge on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 05:54 pm:

I have to comment about the tourists. I suppose I would be considered one, since I am only in the Keeweenaw 7-9 weeks/weeknd a yearand have been for the past 6 years. Each time I am there I admire the pristine beauty of the land, somehow manage to drop a WAD of cash in local restaurants, hotels, movie houses, bowling alleys, MTU performing arts center and bookstores, grocery stores, and almost each gift shop open. I can't tell you how discouraged I am to wait my turn in line at the Econo bakery or the Co-op grocery and listen to "local's" insulting remarks about tourists. Yes, some of them act like idiots and the extra traffic destroys the roads, but if you would have been at the Copper Harbor 4th July fireworks display, you would have seen this same behavior you so despise from your very own young people!!!!! Talk about biting the hand that feeds you!! Not to worry...when mine are finished at Tech, I doubt if me or my green money will be visiting your green shores anymore. Not that I don't love the area or have a ton of money to throw around--I just plan on going where I know I'm welcome. Where I can relax, enjoy God's creation, and take home a few photos.

By the way, I don't ski, snowmobile, ice fish, boat, or hunt. So I'm not destroying those resources. Simply helping support your economy--temporarily.


By `Sandy, Under the Bridge and staying there on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 06:05 pm:

PS. Forgot the gas stations, casino (only went twice) barber shop, Back Room, Movie rental, house been renting the past couple of years, local utility companies, Humain Society (did some dog walking) I could go on. My motto (shared with the Boy Scouts) is to take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints. And for this - am insulted. I don't want to buy up your property, tear anything down, or change it in any way....except perhaps your attitude about "tourists". Good thing we don't all think similarily about Yoopers. Hey?

Yup, a bit insulted and left with a bitter taste in my mouth for the UP.


By welcome to the UP... Now Leave... on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 06:44 pm:

Sandy:
I'm sure the UP will not miss another sour puss...


By ck, Chassell on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 07:14 pm:

Sandy, UTB:

On behalf of my fellow "locals," I extend a heartfelt apology to you and other tourists for the insulting "anti-tourist" attitude you've encountered up here. I can assure you that most Yoopers welcome the tourists and their business--especially those with wads of cash to throw around! ;) Don't let a few numbskulls sour your trips to the UP.

Of course, some of the locals EVERYWHERE despise tourists, even if their livelihood depends on tourism (maybe especially so). It's a universal phenomenon; it's not unique to the Upper Peninsula. This doesn't make it right, but it's just the way things are. Some people even hate their own neighbors. Go figure.


By WALTER P TAMPA on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 08:30 pm:

NICE PICTURE


By Steve the Troll on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 10:23 pm:

I believe CK in Chassell, where I lived as a MTU undergrad at Watia's Cabins, (Cabin is real descriptive) has it right. Nobody should bash the tourists who just want to visit and enjoy. My fear is the folks who think they want to buy, build, control, and change, ....and then go to FL from Oct thru May. The UP is a very special place as to both people and scenery. I had a future wife leave me and the Lower to return home. (28 years ago) She is still there, and probably made the right choice. Yoopers always go home. They go home for a reason..............and we see it every night on Pastycam.......... Sorry Sandy...I did not mean to offend.........


By Sandy, UTB on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 11:22 pm:

Thank you to Steve and CK for the kind, reassuring thoughts. And you're right...every town does have its tourists and the associated problems. We have them here, too....except we just can't figure out what draws them "here." (LOL) We have so little to offer. I wouldn't want outsiders to come in and destroy timberlands and wildlife just to erect a "summer place" either- in my backyard or yours. God's gifts are too precious to take so lightly. My condolences Steve in regards to the loss of your future wife. It sounds as if your heart truely is still in the Keweenaw in more ways than one. I'm hoping all worked out well for you in the end. We're in a somewhat similar situation...except I'm on the outside as the parent looking in. And the families (ours and hers) have taken to one another quite fondly. I fear many hearts will be broken by the tugs of home.

I still love the Keeweenaw!


By Dee, Lake Linden, MI on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 10:05 am:

Dear Sandy UTB, Your message really upset me to now know that you have had lousy experiences with some locals, in many locations and businesses from other customers. I also am so very sorry for the truly unkind words you've heard. I have to live up here knowing some of my Copper Country residents spout unkind words in public. I guess they don't go by the principles, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all!" These people certainly do not speak for all of us, not even the majority, so please give us another try? In fact, I would even like to extend to you a Copper Country welcome from a Copper Country resident...Me! When you are in the area again, please free to contact me and we could get together, have coffee and meet for a chat. I wish for you to know most of us enjoy meeting people and extending to visitors a warm and friendly welcome and a nice stay. Dvencato@chartermi.net


By robert on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 11:29 am:

Hey everybody that's not from the good ol' UP...
C'mon up here, it's beautiful. Buy a tract of land from someone for a ridiculous price. Build a million dollar house on that land.
What's this do to the locals ???
Drives up the price of land so as no local can ever afford to buy his own piece.
Drives up the prices of houses so no local can afford to own his own home.
Drives up the taxes on the home/land the local owns now, so as he can't afford to pay the taxes, let alone pass it on to the next generation.
As i've always said...
Tourists are always welcome, but after your vacation, go home....


By Lily, in IL on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 12:34 pm:

America seems to be running out of greener
pastures we can turn brown.


By Mary Lou on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 01:20 pm:

robert....prices on homes and land held for many years in the family generally go up all over the county....not just in the UP. I think bringing in financially secure residents is a whole lot more economically sound practice than continuing to see the economy in the area go "down the tubes". I personally like to see nice homes and neighborhoods with well kept up property. It is the American way to strive to better ourselves. I love the Copper Country but there are a lot more shacks than million dollar homes.....these folks pay huge taxes to support the less fortunate. I think it is progress!! We can't continue to live in the past.......and besides what was so great about the past??..our forefathers worked like slaves in the mines and mills of the area for low wages.....some left the area for better conditions and are now returning and are able to have a better life...I think it is great for everyone!!


By tlm on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 01:56 pm:

To Karen P

For the Isle Royal map, the last letter of your url was incorrect. It is at:

http://www.nps.gov/carto/PDF/ISROmap1.pdf


By former visitouron on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 03:43 pm:

I've spent some time in the U.P. Several years in fact, and have been treated with, at best, indifference, and at the worst, open hostility. Have recently heard the very kind moniker "touron", used to describe tourists. Clearly an amalgom of "tourist" and "moron". Hippocrically, this "touron" designation was bestowed on tourists, by a "local" who spends only the summer months in the Keweenaw, but the remainder of the time in the Detroit area.

This "local" also spoke harshly about the possibility of Hunter's point being developed. Probably because from this person's nearly-new home on the East end of Copper Harbor, the view to the West would be spoiled.

Wasn't this person's home on the East end also "development"? Such hippocracy I have not heard since I lived in Colorado and California. Not a single person I knew was from there, yet they disliked "outsiders" too. Their definition of an outsider was someone who hadn't been there as long as they had been.

With development, comes people. Some doing things you might not necessarily like. Unless you do something about the capitalistic system, money greases the skids of commerce and forces its way inside and does what it wants. You can't have it both ways: economic development AND control to not have it change the nature of "your" Copper Country.

Sorry for the tone of this message, truly, but I couldn't sit back and let what I perceive the hippocracy of what I read go on unchecked.

Love this site, really do love the locals and culture in spite of my treatment while there and I do understand where everyone is coming from opinion-wise. I don't know what the answer is. Can't control how people treat visitors to the area. Maybe there needs to be a Keweenaw County master plan drawn up. In certain areas of our county, house lots can't be smaller than 10 acres. Of course, then you have the land-use Nazi's speak disparagingly about peoples' "piano key" shaped lots.

I don't have an answer, but let's can the hippocracy, 'kay?


By Yooper at heart on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 08:47 am:

Tourist. Hmmmmm. I'm from the first generation of my family born outside of Houghton. We still have a cabin in the Keweenaw. Built in the early 40's. Use it alot in the summer. To me, the people there have always been friendly and nice. If I lived up there I would resent the changes that were occouring around me as well. I'd bet, however, that if some Yoops were to travel to any metro in the U.S., they would feel blessed to have what they have. This whole country is developing at an astounding rate in all areas-commercial, retail, housing. Kinda funny how the "old" developed area's can't be dozed and rebuilt. Inner cities stay bad, while the farmland and forrests outside urban areas are developed without remorse. Ultimately it comes down to $. SOMEONE or bodies in the UP have to lobby for the tourist attractant dollars. These folks either think they are doing the right thing or want to get reelected. The Yoop's greatest asset is it's greatest liability-it's beauty. What I mean is that once you attract a "tourist", you probably have gained a customer for life-and that will grow every year. Is that bad? No. Can the Keweenaw develop enough of itself away to accomodate these people that it defeats their reason for visiting and spending $ there in the first place? Yes. It is a double edged sword that must be handled with diligence and not greed.


By Eino Einar Wanahapia on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 08:48 am:

How in the world over 100,000 people lived within the ghetto-confines of Calumet is anyone's guess.
And without the attendant crime wave that is part of the "common ground" of our similiarly populated areas of today.

10-acre lot sizes? I believe that failed attempt at a solution resulted in the land being gobbled up quicker than the farmers could sell it.


By Ralph, PA on Monday, September 22, 2003 - 10:02 am:

I got the same email. It appears to be a scam however I don't know if it's doing more than verifying that the aol email address is valid or not.



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