National political debate

Past-E-Mail: Cam Notes - 2004: January: Jan 02-04: National political debate
Today's picture drew several comments of a political nature, which prompted this subtopic.

Dave of Mohawk, MI on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 02:14 pm:

Speaking of economic and industrial well being in the U.P. It's difficult for the U.P. to prosper when the economy of the entire country is in such terrible condition. Look back to 1980; from 1980 to 1992 we were in a recession {if not a depression] from 1992 to 2000 the economy recovered, the jobless rate was low, the stock market was booming, many new industries were started including some in the U.P., we were paying down the national debt, there was even a budget surplus. From 2000 to 2004 look what has happened, unemployment has soared, the national debt is out of control, the overall economy is in horrible condition. Think about it: does this tell us something?

By RD, Iowa on Saturday, January 3, 2004 - 07:23 am:

Yes, Dave, it tells us that the economic recovery which Clinton inherited in 1992 took Reagan-Bush 12 years to build, but took Clinton only 8 years to destroy.

By Dave Whitten, MI on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 03:07 pm:

You are right Dave of Mohawk ... things economic have been down in the US as a result of the horrible Clintonomics programs that slick Willie left behind. We are however very much on the mend as a result of Republican/Bush changes. All ecomomic indexes indicate recovery. Those areas of the country like the UP and here in SE Michigan that are so one (read few) industry dependent may take more time to appreciate the up turn.

By Uncle bud/old Mohawk guy on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 04:11 pm:

A lot of silly nonsense.Blame it on someone.
The real reason there is no real industry in the UP, especially the western part, is because of its LOCATION. The same is true of other areas of this country. All those gimmics like Incubator Zones, Free Zones, Gov grants etc are gonna do nothing to bolster a booming economy there. They just create lifetime positions for a few and give false hope to the rest and get VOTES for the liberal politicials. Real companys are gonna go where there is cheap transportation, abundance of cheap/skilled labor and minimum restrictions.

By Joe Finn, Rhinelander, Wi on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 04:42 pm:

Right on Uncle bud. Location is a big factor. When the mine's ore bodies played out, like they all do, there was an infrastucture of cheap transportation left (railroads). I watched as the railroad tracks were ripped up and made into snowmobile trails. Snowmobilers, although important to the economy now, do not add good paying jobs.

By Barry Seymour, Manhattan Beach, CA on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 05:18 pm:

Dave Whitten: You must be KIDDING, right? Clinton left a huge surplus - Bush squandered it after two years and replaced it with a huge deficit.

Clinton fought to protect the environment, Bush quietly dismantles environmental protection rules, usually announcing it on a Friday afternoon to ensure the major news outlets give it a pass.

Poverty and unemployment went down during Clinton's years, now it's UP UP UP.

When Clinton left the White House the US was respected by it's allies and loved by much of the rest of the world. With Bush, even after 9/11, the U.S. is viewed with suspicion and loathing for it's autocratic, arrogant policies, even by it's allies.

Clinton tried and failed to lie about diddling an intern. Bush tried and *succeeded* in lying about Iraq's WMD, Saddam's link to Al Quaeda and the the reasons why we had to send our young men and women into harm's way. I'll take Clinton's lies over Bush's any day.

End of rant.

By Dave Whitten, Farmington Hills, MI on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 06:20 pm:

Not kidding Barry, but no doubt a disagreement best continued in a different environment.

By No more Bushism....... on Friday, January 2, 2004 - 07:49 pm:


By danbury; germany on Saturday, January 3, 2004 - 12:17 pm:

Quote: "Real companys are gonna go where there is cheap transportation, abundance of cheap/skilled labor and minimum restrictions." (See above)
A friend (american) recently told me that the recovery of the american economy won't do much good because the production process (read: jobs) is relocated (See quote) to foreign countries, e.g. China (??). So, how about that? Do a Bush, throw all restrictions out of the window and let all companies do as they please with the environment and workforce and whatever?
Okay, which american (ok, first-world) worker wants to work for third-world wages and live in third-world-quality industrial environment? Not me.
One more thing to economy and environment: I've been to Pennsylvania in '02 on an excursion, talking to forresters and other people, from industry (pulp, paper) to environmentalists (no, these are not terrorists). Very interesting. What we heard about pollution, acid rain and such, sounded very familiar. Just like in Germany. Couple of decades ago.
Things have changed here, slowly, not enough, but noticeable. And believe it or not: We still have an economy! And we don't live in caves!
I'm not telling you how to run your country. But since you (= the US) are the big fish in the pond as the one big powerful nation, your actions are, to a certain extent, of global relevance. And are being watched.

By DJB-MI. on Sunday, January 4, 2004 - 11:57 am:

The enemies within & outside are attacking our economy.How they are doing it needs careful attention , but is not being recognized by many
responsible people.Some like Stupak see the errors going on, but few listen to his common sense & vision.

By sarah, mi on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 08:31 am:

So, either I do Internet based work and hope for a good connection (I know people in the UP who can't get a good connection to this day, cable that is, which should be good), or I stay down here, SE MI, and make enough money to have a vacation home in the UP? Could take awhile, may have to work well into retirement, then my bones might tell me to strive for warm weather in the winter.

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