Oct 30-03

Past-E-Mail: Cam Notes - 2003: October: Oct 30-03
Trick or Treat    ...scroll down to share comments
Photo by Donn de Yampert

Mary Drew at Pasty Central on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 08:30 am:

This little U.P. beauty is trying to look scary, but she can't fool me! She didn't fool Donn de Yampert either, since he wasn't afraid to get a close up of this scary witch for his album. She did put in a great effort though, with that green face and wicked toothy grin....I bet she's made more mud pies than bat wing stew though!

Halloween countdown........2 more days to dig up the portable heater to keep the front porch warm and check the lightbulbs out there also....you know it's dark earlier now!

By halloween believer... on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 08:51 am:

what a little cutie!its too bad the clk schools are taking away wonderful halloween memories away from our next generation.not allowing the kids to dress up and have partys this halloween... what a shame...

Editor's note: See an article about this local controversy at the
Daily Mining Gazette.

By Sharyn on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 09:06 am:

I just heard about CLK last night....not letting the kids dress up. One of my favorite grade school memories was parading up and down the stairs and down the halls at M.M.Morrison. Down here under the bridge there's been no dressing up for a few years allready, but I had always held out hope that it would continue up there in the Copper Country.
Great witch picture! She scared me! haha!

By lk,MI on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 09:30 am:

The Halloween parade at CLK was sure something to look forward too! Now my kids are missing out. Sure it may take away from educational time, but is it so important in grade school? Now they are limited to 45 min. parties, when in middle school, they get half day of instruction off, to see a movie.

By halloween believer on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 09:35 am:

i clicked on the daily mining gazette article and its missing the rest of the story?

By zombie on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 09:37 am:


By Paul, Webberville, MI. on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 10:08 am:

Just got home from watching one of our annual traditions, the costumed elementary students parading, on the sidewalk,3 blocks thru our small town to the high school and back! Came to my favorite website and see that many students cannot do that! Sad!

By SkyHopper on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 10:16 am:

All Hallows Day is soon upon us...and pictures of the beautiful U.P. which we come here to view are replaced with that!

It is beyond me why anyone would dress up their child to be wicked and evil...oh I know it's just for fun, it's all in jest, just a good time, lighten up, ha, ha, ha, wonderful halloween...
Choose you this day whom ye will serve...as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." Ephesians 5:11

"Draw me not away with the wicked, and with the workers of iniquity, which speak peace to their neighbours, but mischief is in their hearts." Palsms 28:3

By b on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 10:36 am:

Boy skyhopper...wrong side of the bed or what!

By happy halloween!!!! on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 10:44 am:

skyhoppers opinion and others with the same view is part of the reason there is no longer halloween at the clk

By Michigan on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 10:45 am:

I can't believe that CLK schools took there Halloween Party away from the kids. That is something the kids always looked forward to.

By Troll, MI on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 11:20 am:

Sounds like Skyhopper had a boring childhood.

By keweenawannbe on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 11:27 am:

Same policy was instituted last year at my son's elementary school in a Chicago suburb, much to the dismay of many, including myself.
Subsequently, the principal was reassigned, and this year, the tradition is back.

By dave - colorado on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 11:49 am:

If people would attempt to look at Halloween from a childs perspective (rather than their own jaded one) they would see that Halloween is about make-believe and fantasy and spooky scariness... It is really sad that some people find it necessary to cloud the world with their own fanatical beliefs and deny the children the chance to dream and laugh...

Here we witness another case where a small group of vocal fanatics dictate policy for the silent masses... this is not unlike the radical islamic factions is it??

By lk,MI on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 12:04 pm:

There are only a very few at CLK with the same view as Skyhopper. I don't believe that is really the reason for taking it away. They already did away with violent, or bloody costumes, and any type of weapon accessories. It was always very cute and festive. Like Bob says "let the kids be kids" !

By Missin the UP from NJ on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 12:10 pm:

Love that Witch! She's got the right idea. Just have fun with the costume and play a different role for a few hours! She's gotta go back to the school "grind" soon enough.

Happy Halloween to all!

By E, MI on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 12:19 pm:

Right on, Dave.

By Frank,, Milw..... on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 01:13 pm:

Where is Mr. Wheatman when we need him. To Skyhopper, 'trick or treat '..............

By RGG - Cedar Rapids on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 01:38 pm:

" ...as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

At my house, I'm serving Snickers and M&M's. You're welcome to stop by, Sky.
A little candy might sweeten your disposition. ;-)

By rick karl, milw WI on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 01:42 pm:

I won't even point out the dark side of religions.
The point is folks, this is a KID thing....

Take away all the fun of being a kid, one thing at a time, and you end up with a bunch of weird people. Why can't we just have fun without people being Taliban-ish?

My 2 cents!

By Joe Finn, Rhinelander, Wi on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 01:43 pm:

Halloween is one of my favorite holidays. When the kids were young, I would take them trick or treating. Taking lots of pictures like the one in here today. I am carving a pumpkin today.
But, cut Skyhopper some slack and understand other points of view. After all it is a pagan holiday.

By trick or treat? on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 01:56 pm:

the gazette article{story continued on page 10a} also states that "the parents of 12 to 15 children typically object to halloween observances for religious reasons" and "because you're celebrating something they don't believe in,they don't come to school."is this fair?

By keweenawannbe on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 02:14 pm:

In the USA, there is a separation of "church" and "state", and in the area of "state" the MAJORITY rules.

By Michigan on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 02:14 pm:


I don't allow my kids to go on every field trip because there are some that I don't agree with, so I just pull them out. I never thought to tell the school to cancel those field trips all together. hmmmm..... Are other religious groups also catered to? I'm sure there are others that would like to change a few things....

By spookville on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 02:15 pm:

i'm all for cutting people slack but religion is behind CLK's halloween ending.if they are not sending the kids to school that is alot of absent students!

By Trick or Treat Troll, MI on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 02:37 pm:

Okay, I'm all for seeing some ghosts and/or ghost stories... Does anyone have any to share or a cool website to go to????

By CLK mother, MI on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 02:56 pm:

"that is a lot of absent students!"

12 to 15 students are not a lot of absent students. I think it's an excuse for the principle to point out this small minority.

Who is the girl in the picture? CUTE!

By Glad I'm a CHRISTian on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 03:00 pm:

I agree with Skyhopper and Joe. It is a 'pagan' holiday. Why should we teach our children more about this holiday when there is already so much crime, etc. in this world. Let us teach them about the Love of God who gave His life for us. We know He is real, look around at all the beautiful scenery in the copper country He has given us. Teach the children love, not witches and ghosts.

By no way jose on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 03:02 pm:

If you ask me little precious looks like a little brat. Can we have a picture of a pumpkin instead? And by the way michigan they do cater to other religions remember a thing called prayer that used to be in school but is no longer because of other religions?

By BT,TC on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 03:08 pm:

I'm a Christian too....my kids are 15 and 17. They went out for candy every Halloween when they were little. I had so much fun making their costumes every year out of goodwill castoffs. We carved a pumpkin or two...mostly happy faces. We never "taught" them about the dark side of the original pagan holiday. Today they are fine upstanding members of our youth group...not to mention my son is considering a career in the ministry of some sort. It is up to the parents to be involved and let the kids have some fun. I don't think Jesus has a problem with having some fun. It's all in the way you look at it and present it to your kids! Happy Halloween!!!

By BCT,Mi on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 03:09 pm:

I'm with Sky,Joe,and Glad.

By Mike / Pontiac on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 03:10 pm:

Skyhopper is certainly entitled to his opinion and his beliefs for that matter, however, opinions should also be timely and appropriate. This is an innocent young child enjoying the season - nothing more - nothing less. Quote your "Ephesians" to your own. Your haphazard preaching to the masses only serves to inflame - we have enough of that in this day and age.

By trick or treat? on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 03:33 pm:

the article states that parents with 12 to 15 kids per household are not sending them to school.

By love to dress up on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 03:35 pm:

I just don't believe that there are even 12-15 students that don't dress up. After going to CLK all of my school years, and having children in the district for 8 years, i know that each year, there are only a few that don't go for the holidays. CLK is just trying to be so top notch, and pretend to focus so strongly on education.

By Steve, Il. on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 03:40 pm:

Evidently there either was no aurora last night, or the cloud cover was too thick to see anything.

By Owl Lady, Wisconsin on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 03:49 pm:

I am a Pagan and I am a very good, moral and ethical person. It's too bad that others don't love everyone no matter what. Isn't that what God or the Goddess taught us?

And I'm glad that I celebrate Halloween.

By troll in eagle harbor on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 03:57 pm:

STEVE,Ill. look at yesterdays page.I saw the lights.For a few minutes anyway...

By mushroom on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 04:05 pm:

12 to 15 children per household? how many branches are there on that family tree? Sounds like there's a pretty happy yooper there somewhere.

By j. Atlanta on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 04:05 pm:

It is a mistake to equate the term "Christian" with good and noble and the term "pagan" with bad. It shows a very narrow minded outlook. We all (or at least those of us who are willing to look) have met lots of people who are not Christian who act in an honorable manner and I, at least, have met many people who claim to be "Christian" whom I wouldn't trust with my watch much less the education of my children.

By Lisa, Lake Orion, MI on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 04:06 pm:

Both sides of the coin here-- it is a pain for teachers to maintain their students' attention at Halloween. The excitement really is distracting. The flip side- is that a bad thing? Heck no, school should have fun memories too.

As far as religious opposing views on Halloween, to each his own. It would be hard to believe that's the reason the parade was cancelled. It seems more reasonable to believe that it's to keep a handle on the celebration.

At the school I where I work, we have several families who do not send their children to school on Halloween. They are usually the families who pull their kids out of class when "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" is part of Language Arts. Again, to each his own, as it should be.

By Trick or Treat Troll, MI on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 04:07 pm:

How about The Power of Three!!! The Charmed Ones!!! Love that show!

By CLK mother on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 04:09 pm:

No, the article states that the parents of 12 to 15 separate kids don't agree. I initially had the same misunderstanding as you, and being from a family of 15, I was baffled tht he was pointing the blame at us. Bad wording on the principle's part.

By Joe Finn, Rhinelander, Wi on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 04:14 pm:

I am not a christian. I was just trying to bring some understanding to this great website. Belive me 15 students absent is a lot of money in state aid. If they would have have cancelled the Holloween party because of religous pressures when my kids were in school, I would have kept my kids home in protest. I am sorry we had this flurry of e-mails on this subject.

By Mike / Pontiac on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 04:15 pm:

See what I mean Mr. Skyhopper ? Owl Lady is out there just like you choosing her own way and living in a positive fashion. So what if her beliefs do not align with yours? Has this harmed you in some fashion? We should revel in individual beliefs and leave the herding to our own shepherds. Follow your own and do not expect all in a line behind you. Why we could end up in a war - for deitys sake.

By Troll in eagle hatbor on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 04:20 pm:

16 days til deer season.NOT TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT or anything..

By Leinonen, Indiana on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 05:20 pm:

As a middle school teacher in Indiana, we were asked not to include witches or black cats as part of our bulletin boards displays. No costumes here either. Such a sad day for the little ones.

By dave - Colorado on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 05:38 pm:

Right On! j. from Atlanta!

Many of those who claim to be "christian" simply do not walk the walk.

and let's not forget history. Remember the Crusades? the Spanish Inquisition? the Salem Witch trials?? Waco, Texas?? The radical Islamics?? Ethnic cleansing in Bosnia?? Nazis?? The wholesale slaughter of native North American peoples by Europeans who claimed "Divine Right"!! all in the name of religion!! Now who is really proud of the history written by organized religions??

For as long as there has been organized Religions people have used religion to justify their immoral acts. In fact, Religious differences were behind most of the wars humans have fought (including the current one) and since all religions preach "thou shalt not kill" this is the ultimate hypocrisy!! what the Religious fanatics really mean is "Kill those who do not believe as we do" and control the rest through censorship and intimidation!!

Now thump your Bible to someone else...

By Fran,Ga on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 05:44 pm:

Peraonally I think it is pathetic that they don't allow kids to have fun, play dress up and get some candy. I NEVER ever was told anything wicked concerning this day. All we ever did was get really excited about going out and getting a lot of candy. Gosh my neighbor has a black cat -I guess it is evil!! She had better keep all little children away from it!!! It is sad to me that a few people are ruining our lives and NO I am not an evil wicked person who worships the devil! Sorry folks but this has got my temper up. Now I do want to wish everyone a Happy Halloween and have fun watching the little ones come to visit, i always take their pictures they look so cute.

By walter p mc on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 06:01 pm:

one thing it is a grand celtic tradition also celts do not under any circumstances like their traditions andcustoms demeaned and degraded and having their religion called pagan they have always had traditions of acceptence and tolerance of other religions it is sad and very shameful the some so called christians do not itis not the teaching of christ to act this way with others so why do you have a grand halloween in the grandest tradition of the irish celts and once again please please try to exercise tolerance of others go raith maith agat=thanks

By Connie - Colorado on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 06:07 pm:

Halloween is considered a pagan holiday by many. Maybe that is the origin, but who today practices evil in this pagan ritual? Maybe a long time ago some real evil was done, but I don't think anyone is currently engaging in evil relating to halloween. Modern folks have turned it into a fun day for children and most of us have focussed on that. When I was in sixth grade at Houghton Elementary School, Mr. Novitch told us that the wearing of costumes was to fool the evil ones so they wouldn't recognize us when they come soul hunting. Is it evil to avoid evil? I think not. If this is so evil, why is everyone smiling?

By j. Atlanta on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 06:11 pm:

I've been thinking about what I said. I still support it, but I also support the opinions the other people posted. However, the greatest thing of all is that neither they nor I have to worry about a knock on the door in the middle of the night tonight and a trip to prison because of opinions.
Time to be thankful.

By Thankful too on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 06:23 pm:

Amen! Now let's eat some candy!

By teach, milwaukee on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 06:30 pm:

I taught first and second grades for many years. I ALWAYS celebrated Halloween with my kids, and made sure they had a great time. I kept it in perspective, and had no problem with inattentiveness, silliness and misbehavior. I think the NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND act is turning us into a bunch of
grinches....maybe the powers that be should watch it again!!!

By Paul in Illinois on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 07:10 pm:

In this Country we still have freedom of speech and freedom of religion - as long as we are politically correct about it. Right now there is a major flap in Bloomington-Normal, Illinois over reading OF MICE AND MEN, HUCKLEBERRY FINN, TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD, and even A RAISIN IN THE SUN. Why? Because the "N" word appears in them, and the mentally challenged guy in OF MICE AND MEN wasn't treated very nice. Three protestors have the school board and whole community in an uproar. Three families who miss the point of these novels - duh! don't treat people that way - are trying to dictate the curriculum for 100,000. This is possible because the administrators HAVE to respond or face charges of insensitivity or worse. So we now have a system where one atheist can get prayer banned in public places and one hyper-religious person can get Halloween banned. Used to be, that if you didn't like something, you would just abstain from the activity and let the majority do thier thing, as long as they weren't doing it TO you, this was a fair way to get through life here.
Back to the freedom of speech and religion. Skyhopper et al, have the right to profess thier religious beliefs without fear of persecution just as Owl Lady is free to be a Pagan. Funny thing is, Halloween has its roots in "Pagan" cultures, but the Christians have done an excellent job of preserving it down through the centuries; most Christian Holydays and the traditions associated with them are drawn from the Pagan cultures. Even the names of most of the days of the week are of Pagan origin! Early Christians tended to be a bit more tolerant and adaptable. It wasn't until they became the majority in Europe that they started killing off non-believers. By the way, I'm am a Christian with 12 years of Christian education (we did do Halloween). Every religion has its darkside and its share of evil spirits pretending to have God on thier side. Remember Christ's little one liner aboout casting the first stone?
Hey, if you don't like Halloween, don't do it or dress your kid in an angel suit. If you do, have fun and be safe.
Funny how a little girl in a witch's costume can spark so many notes. At least this round was pretty civilized.

By Jim, Lower Mi. on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 07:11 pm:

To Whomever; The words "seperation of church and state" do not appear in our constitution. And the Phrase "Thou shall not kill", means thou shall do no murder, and killing in wartime generaly isn't considered murder.

By The Dam Guy, Parasite Creek on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 07:11 pm:

Unfortunately, the 2nd Amendment doesn't guarantee the right to bear weapon accessories. What is a pirate without a sword? What is an Inuit costume without a club for the baby seals?
How can you have Christmas without a Red Ryder BB gun? We've got to lighten up and let kids be kids... a little mummery never hurt anyone.

By Allen, MI on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 07:59 pm:

Gosh, I've got to read the cam notes more often!
All this controversy over a cute little kid's picture! I believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion and in fact are guarenteed it for the most part in this country. But let's lighten up a little. I agree with Dave. I serve the lord but tomorrow night I too will be serving candy to a lot of cute little kids in the name of fun!

By Fellow Troll on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 08:07 pm:

When killing in wartime is not considered murder,unless of course you kill the "wrong" person for the "wrong" reasons, then perhaps you should consider who is doing the considering. i.e. the old "whose ox" question..........
U.S. Army draftee 28 Sept 1970 - 01 April 1972
(but who's holding a grudge?) But at least they paid for my way through law school Jim......Did I see you there............either venue?

By Ms. Katie on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 08:22 pm:

What a great conversation going on! That's what's great about our country, we can all state our ideas and opinions in freedom. But you know what really scares me these days? I just heard in primetime NBC those intellectuals on "Friends" discussing "doing it" in a public bathroom and "doing it" in their own bathroom. Talk about polluting our kids, lets face it. It's everywhere in dozens of ways we're not even aware off! I'm sure glad my kids are grown. I just pray for the minds of the grand kids.Have a fun Halloween everybody.

By walter o mc on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 08:36 pm:

again the P word other religions do not consider themselves pagan only misguided christains who again need to learn to be tolerant of others and stop the name calling lets celibrate the feast of all saints in joy and peace as it was and is intended lets pray for a free and unified ireland that would be in the christan spirit as we should know it

By Copper Country mom on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 08:41 pm:

I don't have to think too hard to figure out which group (a certain prominent local religious group)of parents went after the school to get rid of the Halloween tradition. I've seen it happen in other local schools with coaches. They are like a pack and when they go after something (or someone)to get rid of, they do. By the way, I don't really care much for Halloween so it doesn't matter to me either way. Just wanted to comment.

By Steve Racine Wi on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 09:05 pm:

This is just a fantasy thing for kids, let them have some fun. It's not real. Come on people!! Children love to play

By Selinda Dally on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 09:23 pm:

Ok Skyhopper
Lets get those kids back in the classroom doing what they are suppose to do...the three R's. No fun no games no fantasy. No holiday programs, no Presidents Day or Martin Luther King either and definately no Christmas play as it may offend the Jews or Muslims.

Ok now here is what I really feel. I feel that when all these and many more holidays come about the kids should stay in school and learn about why we have them. The whole day should be dedicated to learning about them. We in Illinois have a holiday that most kids still arent sure what it is all about and get the day off. It is Casmir Pulaski Day. Ever hear about it?

Now lighten up about it. Teach your kids why you are anti-Halloween and what the real reason for it is and what the day after is called or do you even know. It is All Saints Day. Happy Halloween.

By walter p mc tampa on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 09:33 pm:

selinda got it happy all saints day to one and
all and to all a good night

By Jim, Lower Mi. on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 09:40 pm:

Fellow Troll; I have 20 years on you sir. Cpl US Army, Drafted 1952 served till '54 Korean War era. OK?

By Alice, Ventura, CA on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 09:40 pm:

The comment that dressing up for Halloween is taking away from educational time kind of got me to thinking. I was a teacher for 20 years. There is more to educational time than simply doing the daily lessons. What happened to creativity, children learning to express themselves in a variety of ways? The arts have gone, Christmas programs have gone. Sometimes we need to give kids a chance to be kids, have fun, dream, play, try on different roles, and wonder at the world. Maybe Halloween doesn't do this, but then, for some kids, maybe it does!

By Steve Racine Wi on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 09:41 pm:

to Selinda,
very good answer! I'm with you. Thank you

By ywb/yooperwannabe/richmond on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 10:01 pm:

Happy Halloween to All!
I live out in the country. We have no trick or treaters. Boy I sure miss seeing those cute kids trudge up to my doorstep. I have managed to make up a lot of goodie bags though, Friends of my son's who attend NMU and CMU, were treated this week. My 12 years olds girlscout troop, the 7th grade girls basketball team, and the richmond high school girls varsity team. Halloween is for the kid in all of us. Let's not blow something so far out of the water.
I do have a few treat bags left over. Any takers?

By ywb/yooperwannabe/richmond on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 10:02 pm:

By the way...
I LOVE the witch costume!

By Marsha, Genesee and Aura on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 10:06 pm:

In our Flint-area school the K-3 kids still dress up and parade, but no fake blood, gore, guts, vomit, weapons, etc. The older elementary kids are doing theme parties, such as the fifties. How can anyone complain about all the cute Raggedy Ann, Clifford, etc. costumes? The most shocking thing I've heard today came from No Way Jose who said "little precious looks like a little brat"! Looks like? No Way Jose!

By Gary,CO on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 10:37 pm:

It's strange how children are able to so easily differentiate between make-believe and reality while adults apparently struggle.

By Chris, IL on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 10:43 pm:

If Halloween is wrong,I don't wanna be right!

By Catherine--Holland, MI on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 10:53 pm:

Way to go, Marsha! I agree completely. We also celebrate without gore, etc. and respect those who choose not to celebrate at all. Having differing opinions expressed in a polite manner about the holiday is legit and stimulating, but being rude about someone else's child is despicable. No Way Jose needs to take a lesson in civility from the the other posters. I hope the little girl doesn't ever find out about that hurtful and unnecessary comment.

And be brave enough to sign your real name next time, Jose--pot shots are easy behind a psuedonym!

By Ray D. New Mexico on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 11:27 pm:

I'm late to this conversation, but here's my .02.
Halloween is all souls day, Nov. 1st is all Saints day. Most Christian holy days (holidays) were paganized by non-christians so they had something to celebrate that wasn't advancing Christianity. Thus the children of non-christians could celebrate these holidays. Ex. Santa Claus, Easter bunny. Need I go on. Most of it is OK if kept in perspective. If your Christian, just remember what the Holy Day is about and celebrate for your own reasons. Peace!!

By lyndy mid-U.P. on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 11:49 pm:

Last Halloween my daughter had her third grade students give an oral book report dressed in a costume of a charactor from the book. She also dressed in costume and read a story to them after witch...they all had treats. The parents helped the children with the costumes and were very creative. They all had educational FUN.

By Homesick Copper Country Yooper on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 02:35 am:

So many fond memories of Halloween as a kid in Houghton in the 50's and 60's. Trying to be creative and think of a costume to make was a lot of fun. We didn't think of it in terms of being evil at all, or concentrate on that aspect of the holiday. Besides the trick or treating through the neighborhood (which was fun to see if your neighbors could guess who you were), there were the fun parties with bobbing for apples, scavenger hunts, collecting for UNICEF, artwork contests between classes and then paint the store windows downtown with the winning ideas. And it was neat that our school colors were conveniently orange and black. But the holiday was also about the fall season and all that went along with it. I don't believe we tried to over-analyze it - - we just had a lot of fun. I understand why some folks may fnd the holiday to be accentuating evil, especially when there are so many more graphic and gory scary costumes this day and age. But I think we can use our discretion and make the day whatever we feel it should be, while respecting the opinions of others. We are fortunate to live in a country where we can all express our feelings. How truly blessed we are when it comes right down to it. All of the thoughts expressed today were wonderful to read. That's what makes our country so great, is the fact that there is room enough for all of us to coexist with our many different views on a variety of topics. This website does such a good job of promoting the ability to share our feelings and opinions.

By DJ, MSU on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 05:57 am:

YIKES ... All the controversy. With so much trouble in this world I hope to enjoy halloween with my family including the two grandkids who's father is a Lutheran Pastor.
Now lets get to some real controversy. MSU vs. those smelly Wolverweenies!

By Mary Lou on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 09:34 am:

DJ-MSU.......now I am interested....did you see Michigan "slaugthter" Purdue last Saturday. HAIL TO THE VICTORS!!.....Your Spartens will have their work cut out for them!! GO U of M.!!!!!......now that is controversy worth our time.....oh yah!!!!...Happy Halloween.....

By DJ, MSU on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 09:41 am:

Poor, poor Mary Lou. You sad miss-guided thing. I can only hope that you can survive Saturday with out too much distress. I'm sure Lloyd can loan you one of his many crying towels if you're in need.
See you in East Lansing??

By Alice, Ventura, CA on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 09:43 am:

Oh, I couldn't resist--GO BLUE!

By Dave - Colorado on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 11:24 am:

Boy! Ya gotta love this site!! Happy Halloween/All Souls Day/All Saints Day or whatever you choose to celebrate...

By Herb_NW_Wis. on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 12:56 pm:

The root traditions of Halloween are far older than
Christianity and a charming remnent of that older
European religion of Wotan and those older gods.
If it only exists one day of the year when kids dress
up as spooky creatures, let them have fun.

When I go up the Keweenaw I obtain a sense of
older gods there too. Those are the Indian deities
that still haunt the lake region.

Should we ban those too?

By CC parent on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 01:31 pm:

Sorry, Copper Country Mom- I think I know which "prominent local religious group" you have a grudge against. Hate to tell you, but they all do Halloween. The only ones I've heard of that don't are a small religious group- but they have the right to not participate. I don't believe that education is behind this policy. The high school gets to dress up, but was instructed not to go near the elementary school. How mean! The little kids who love it, can't do it. It's that touchy-feely garbage that is penetrating our schools. Example: Now you don't have to try out for middle school sports and groups- you're in if you want to be. I hope they don't do that in high school! Competition is healthy. Where would Copper King hockey be with this mentality?! Happy Howwwwwwwllloween!

By Connie - Colorado on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 03:12 pm:

Back when we were kids in the seventies, the night of October 30 was called Fox night. I heard a long time ago it was named after a rogue brit named Faux. Either way, on that night vandals would soap and wax windows on homes and cars or toilet paper the trees. Teachers were often victims. Now that I have been through the first mortgage process and have purchased a home and worked to pay off a car, I can't see why this evil tradition ever got anywhere! But it was fairly popular back then. In the UP, we did not burn houses like they do on the same night in Detroit under the alias of Devil's Night. You wanna talk about evil? Well, doesn't trick-or-treating seem tame! It was normal to wake up halloween morning in Houghton and see wax scribbling all over your car, if you were lucky, just the windows.

By Martha K., Pinckney, MI on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 03:12 pm:

When I was a kid we had one kid in our class who didn't celebrate any holidays. When we had our Halloween and Thanksgiving and Christmas and Valentine's Day and Easter parties, Richard went and sat in the school office. What a way to make a kid feel different at a time when feeling part of the group is so important! Richard was also one of the class bullies. I think there was a connection. When I was ten years old, I just hated this kid because he was so mean. Now I feel sorry for him. I don't know what the solution is. Cancel the parties so no one is left out? Not fair to the rest of the kids. Have the parties and exclude those who can't participate. Not very nice for those kids either.

All I know is I can't wait to see all the kids dressed up in their costumes on Saturday, November 1. I mean the ones in green and white who are pretending to be football players. Go Blue!

By walter p tampa on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 05:10 pm:

again halloween evolved from the druids in Ireland and became christianized after st. patrick came to tdhe emerald isle and became the feast of all souls and all saints erin go bragh

By bj-milford on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 07:01 pm:

Does anyone remember the Silers in $Bay? They always had pop on Halloween. You got to pick out your favorite flavor after they tried to guess who you were. Always a nice rest stop, especially if it was raining (or snowing).

By Fran,Ga on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 08:11 pm:

Hey bj, sure do remember the Seilers. Mrs Seiler was the Girl Scout Leader for Years and was a very nice lady. You are right about them always having Pop.By the time we got all the way over there we were ready for something to drink. Mrs Seiler paid for many of our supplies etc for scouts out of her pocket-many of us could not have afforded to be in the scouts without her help. I am so glad that One time when I happened to be home I saw her after church and thanked her for all of the extra special things she did for us.She passesd away not many yrs later.

By Brian, Ohio on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 09:06 pm:

Anything that entertains --educates!

I have accidently found a simple but effective way to train a child..

Elementary School: Halloween costume parties, trick or treat night, candy, fun, Harry Potter, majic cards, magic tricks

Jr. High: Ouija (WeeGee) boards, toilet papering houses, egging houses, "special secrets", rock music, kissing parties, Rated R "scary movies, fascination with blood and fire

High School: Halloween Drinking parties, Experimenting with drugs, sexual relationships, teenage pregnancy, "Nothing evil scares me", Heavy Rock music, sexual dancing, smoking

Their adulthood is a sad state and leaves me brokenhearted.

(By the way--they spent 1-2 hours/week in Sunday School every Sunday!)

I let my children do the same fun things as many of the wholesome families did (didn't want them to miss out on the "fun") and somehow (not sure how?) they ended up like many of their friends.

The worst part is: My grandchildren LOVE Halloween!

By Ray D. New Mexico on Saturday, November 1, 2003 - 12:26 am:

This is for you DJ

Gooooooooooooooooo BLUE.

By yooper mom on Saturday, November 1, 2003 - 01:18 am:

I'm curious! When I grew up downstate on Halloween night all the kids went through the neighborhood yelling "Help the Poor" instead of "Trick or Treat".We said we were going out begging. Anyone remember those days back in the 60's? My hubby says he never heard of that in the copper country. We also would go to each others houses and sing out their names at the door. This was anytime of the year. Went like this "Linda, Linda", "Katie, Katie". Good way to get your friends to hear you at the door.

Also wanted to say that the parade of kids on Elevation Street in Hancock was great! Every year they hike up the street and around the blocks for everyone to see them in their halloween costumes. Too bad the CLK kids missed out. And I don't think it is because of a certain group against halloween. (I believe it is a teacher/principle thing.) There were many mom's, dad's, and grandma's from the families with lot's of kids enjoying the kids dressed up.

I called my daughter downstate tonight to see how my grandchildren enjoyed halloween. She mentioned the weather was warm and beautifull, but there were not many trick or treaters out there. Same as last year when I went down on halloween. Less and less are going out. I wonder if there are more indoor parties instead. My daughter did say that at my grandaughters class parade that so many of the little kids are dressing up as Brittany Spears and sexy little things with bellies showing, and tatoos, and piercings. Now I don't think that is good. Teachers were saying next year they want to send notes to the parents to not go for the rock star, blood and guts stuff. The innocence of children is dissapearing, sadly.

By halloween believer... on Saturday, November 1, 2003 - 03:53 am:


By Carole on Saturday, November 1, 2003 - 10:18 am:

Yooper mom: funny that you mentioned kids yelling 'help the poor' many many many years back. I did just that as a youngster and I live downstate, so not sure if kids of the 50's and 60's in the UP did the same.

By downstater on Saturday, November 1, 2003 - 04:47 pm:

Yeah Blue

By danbury; germany on Monday, November 3, 2003 - 02:49 pm:

Over here, there's discussions about the upcoming of carved pumpkins, children dressing as witches and other more or less fun-ny halloween stuff. By the opponents, it is considered - no, not evil, but american commercionalism of the worst kind. By following this discussion, I learned what halloween once meant. All hallows' een - The evening before all saints day. Doesn't sound pagan or evil to me.
Unlike killing, which is the wrong thing to do, and does not get better when you say "War" before you pull the trigger.

One question (just curious):
Personal attack removed
I.P. address
AUP policy violation
So, does that mean someone got nasty?
What's AUP?

By Mary Drew at Pasty Central on Monday, November 3, 2003 - 03:39 pm:

AUP stands for Acceptable Use Policy. It means someone violated this policy.

By danbury; germany on Tuesday, November 4, 2003 - 04:31 pm:

Thank You, Mary Drew.

By Trish, Junee, Australia on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 01:57 pm:

We don't celebrate Halloween down here in Australia, but from what I've learned from my dear Yooper friends it's a special part of childhood in the US. Don't let the "do gooders" spoil it for your kids!!
They tried to run Santa out of town too, but I have him here holed up in my laundry. ;)
Let the little ones enjoy their childhood, goodness it's short enough as it is!

By obviously not free to speak on Friday, August 6, 2004 - 08:58 am:

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