Keweenaw Issues: Anonymous Ranting: 2001: December
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By Dear Prudence on Tuesday, January 1, 2002 - 04:11 am:


Woman made blue
Do you hide your face from me in the webbed winds of winter?
A wounded peace has settled on this land
White flags rippling
I should send her this lovesong for her heart's surrender
When music comes inside
It takes you faraway and leaves no one here

Warm feelings freeze in this crying crystal breeze
Who'll fire the spring sun's resurrection?
Spill out your fears through the fountain of my tears
In allegiance to our Ancient Romance
We will teach each deer to dance
Until they've branched their crowns
Wave through me your watery wings, love
I won't let you drown

On the dark shores of my despair
I break a threshold
Bittersweet and clear
My tranquil lake mare lures me
Into her frontier room
A softly shuttled loom weaves through me

Homecoming Bride
Can you heal your husbandry from the Harvest of Hallowed Eve?
Quicksilver sky
Let the leaves of freedom fly
Freakflags fallen from green illusion
Into this season of self-seclusion
When music comes inside
It takes you faraway and leaves no one here

© Havrylak Kern 2000


Click here for an .rmj file demo of When Music Comes Inside

By Shine On You Crazy Diamond on Tuesday, January 1, 2002 - 02:20 am:


By Fun Fireworks On The Way, SkyWatchers Say—HAPPY NEW YEAR!! from Baby Love and Grandfather Time on Monday, December 31, 2001 - 11:56 pm:


By The wurly one on Sunday, December 30, 2001 - 09:49 pm:

While at sea, the porpoise would swim in front of us. I talked to the fish on the wurly one. The fish answered me. I didn't understand.

Tomorrow is the last day. On the 15th I became the only mortal to touch the mature buck, an awesome animal, I saw him only momentarily at 40 yards. He lay on the ground, near the spot where 26 years earlier, an orange hat walked out from the tree. Yesterday, I was within 20 yards of six of his kind that materialized from the trees.

How does one disappear into the woods?

Kundera said that man has an infinite desire to go off and hide himself.

I want to swim in the waves, to run in the woods.

By Nuke the unborn Gay whale on Sunday, December 30, 2001 - 09:16 pm:

Lazy Ruler,
So...dah, like whudjew be saying is like, cause it's like the 21st or 22nd century, man, and like da Bear is widit, dat we wond be having any of the problems affiliated with the hamlet of Gay, say, fifty years down the line?

Mohawk mounds come to mind? A rather recent phenome, failed, and noted....yes, but we have not heard whether or not the phenome has been corrected, how many shovel fulls of doirt it took to coy-rectotrate the problem...

Shoot man, if they'd jus' investigate out dere in Gay, they'd be finding Jimmy Hoffa, right next to that deju-voodoo lynx (shoot, shovel, and shut up).

And by the bye, the water wuality tests conducted at Lac La Belle diss summer turned up nada. Like the lake be home to little biological wonders, each with DNA of its ownin, though Adam forgot to give 'em names.

By Laissez les bon temps rouler on Sunday, December 30, 2001 - 07:44 pm:

Power Whiner,
I'm wondering, too, why we haven't been enlightened about the happenings in the company town of Gay. Even more interesting is the way Buck and others sidestep the issue.

I read where Buck wrote about the Bohemia sewage system: "But if Black Bear's sewage system for 750 skiers/day isn't sized or built correctly their problem seeps into Lac La Belle where it is everyone's problem."

I know something is in the works for Gay, but as yet, I've heard NOTHING! And though the problem with Gay has been around, is around, and will be around until it is remedied, we hear nothing from those who faithfully love the Keweenaw.

What do we hear? Well, we hear about a system that Blakc Bear is working on. We hear nothing, and I repeat, we hear nothing of the raw and untreated sewage that the village of Gay produces, has produced, and will continue to produce until change is effected.

So while Buck (and others, but at least Buck manages to articulate at a level somewhat above the list of nine top-of-the-chart songs listed by Billybob) tries to minimize potential leaking shoreline septics, in the same post the above was pulled from, we hear nothing from those who claim to care.


By Fredrick on Sunday, December 30, 2001 - 06:07 pm:


Keweenaw Heritage is:

What is mine is mine and what is yours is mine to use as I see fit. That is my GIVEN RIGHT.

By Art, Copper Harbor on Sunday, December 30, 2001 - 02:55 am:

Good to see that the opposition is still running strong, we need conflict in life as I've said before.
I'm sure I know who you are, you're just making yourself look bad by not posting your name. It makes it sound like you're ashamed of what people might think of you.
Bohemia may not be as close to my house as yours, but it's just as important to me.....In a different way. It will have a major positive impact on my future as it will many of us up here.
Why don't you accept the ski hill for what it is? It's there now, and it's here to stay like it or not. Mount Bohemia now plays an important part in winter tourism in the Keweenaw. Tourism-a means of making a living for the majority of Keweenaw County. If not for it, most of us wouldn't be here.

By billybob on Saturday, December 29, 2001 - 11:06 pm:

Scabs and sons of scabs. Company pukes. Never met a rich man you didn't like. Never an investment that wasn' ok. Berate your neighbors that speak out against them. Or worse. That's the Keweenaw's heritage. And it is as alive and well today as it was in the early 1900's. Jerks.

By Power Whine on Saturday, December 29, 2001 - 10:58 pm:

Whoop de doo,
I dunno why we haven't heard word one from Keweenaw Now or the other Nimbys about the sewage problems at Gay. I know I did some work there last year for a lady now at Still Waters. I asked her where her septic system was located, as we didn't want to damage it. The township supervisor was there (watching out for her) as I proposed various work on her roof. She said she didn't have a septic.

No. Because it all flows into a nearby ditch, and said ditch makes it way toward the river that makes it way to the lake.

Now, I ask you, enlightened souls: Why have we heard nothing about the system, or lack thereof, in the village of Gay?
I mean, really, considering that Crosswinds is busy raping and pillaging the Keweenaw, you'd think we hear something about problems that existed before everyone became aware of the mountain.

Charles would have us believe that the township officials are addressing the problem. Yet, when the subject was Bohemia related, we had articles ad nausuem on Keweenaw Now or its parent site.
And why were we informed about that?

I guess it made good reading.

I also heard last year about water quality studies being done in the Lac La Belle area. Why haven't we heard anything about that? Water quality already poor?

And how's about those mounds in Mohawk? Everything al honkee doree there?

O! The silent cunning knaves! They have ruined the mountain!

By Whoops, there it is! Hooyah! on Saturday, December 29, 2001 - 10:39 pm:

A few questions:
Are the people who have come to the Keweenaw with the pot of gold they made in life in the same category as those rich miners from Novi who have sunk millions into a ski hill?
Nudder words: Since they have made their money elsewhere, as its unlikely they were pioneers in the jam-making business, and since they have come here, are they rich Novi miners, too?

Why are the people who are speaking out against the Bohemia sewage plant not speaking about the sewage at Gay? Was that not a problem? And are the township officials not good-ole boys in this case (see Charles post) but forthright and considerate?

Haven't heard about Gay?

Censor this.

By PaulEagleRiver on Saturday, December 29, 2001 - 08:35 pm:

Well this stuff is still comming down. I went downhill today in the back yard. It was a short run but effective. This stuff is really getting deep.
To the people who are still against the ski hill and no snow go south to the hills of some other land. seeya

By Fredrick on Saturday, December 29, 2001 - 04:11 pm:

Nancy Kendzierski

You need to get a life. There has to be some local people working at Bohemia. Do you think that all the employees are driving up from Novi?

As for "the money going back to Novi" where do you think it came from? Where do you think the money for national chain business establishments in the UP goes, ie: Walmart, K-Mart, Office Max etc.etc.etc.

As for your son staying here, I would think if you owned a business here that was dependent on tourisim, that he might stay and learn how to run it if he could see future growth.

The reason our young people leave here is because there is no future which is caused by people with your way of thinking or "I HAVE MINE AND I DON'T WANT ANYBODY ELSE TO HAVE ANY PART OF IT,"

Get a life.

By Fredrick on Saturday, December 29, 2001 - 01:47 pm:


Nimby is a whiner because Nimby has theirs and doesn't want anybody else to get a part of it.

Nimby needs to listen to Art's suggestion and let go. Bohemia is here, the snow is here, the skiers will be here and there will be a little more money for local business people.


By Bigbrotherbilly on Friday, December 28, 2001 - 11:23 pm:


Whining still persists hey? Bohemia put in a septic system without a permit. This just shows you how dedicated they are to this project. They went ahead and stuck their necks out once again by putting forth the cash gambling on the fact that the permit would be eventually issued. However, before you get your undies in a bunch, they also knew that they couldn't use the system until permits were granted. It seems to make sense that if permits were granted in the middle of winter it would be too late to build a system. They could very well have put all that money into a hole in the ground if the permit is not granted.Please look at all details before spouting off. I realize that you are one of these people who hate progress,but some people are still for it!

By moi on Friday, December 28, 2001 - 10:47 am:

Bohemia's open! Welcome, skiers and snowmobilers!! Enjoy, and give an extra smile for these downtrodden who simply can't smile. DON'T drive the trails drunk. That's where you're no longer welcome. We want to use these trails too!

By Jean-Claude Killy--with special thanks to Chevrolet Chase, Late Nite P.I. on Friday, December 28, 2001 - 02:27 am:


New Orleans doorkeeps the flood
Carnival conductor of our mystery train
Blue gods born of swamp and blood
Their gospel songs arose from mortal pain
Upstream wheeled the voodoo sounds
Mardi Gras to midwestern towns
Northwinds seized the southern soul
Church bells tolled for that rock he rolled

Old Man River full of fire
Your freedom tears aflame with something higher
Rockets rise to torch the skies
One mourning dove descends
A lonely crier of the judgement that comes before we're born
From childhood through the bodystorm
Till fears of death drag our passions down
And we hug our graves
Moundbuilding slaves

Mississippi RiverSon
Lion-roaring magician
Feathered headdress ecstasy
Angel-flight from Christmas Tree
I sing within my soaring dream
Eagle shadow dancing on serpentine

From Memphis to the Northstar State
Upriver I have churned
Hard against the current just to make this sternwheel turn
Wildblue is my waterdream
Wildblue as the western sky
Like Huck Finn and his Brother Jim
Freedom tears are the tears I cry
I cry
I cry


Click here for a free .rmj file demo of Freedom Tears

By NIMBY on Friday, December 28, 2001 - 01:46 am:

Just because it is not in your back yard, does it make it any less important? Yes, you may live in the county, but you do not live in LLB. Does that make their opinions any less important? You may be sick of hearing about it, but it does not change certain facts. Black Bear has come in and tried to run over everyone. All I can see is that honest questions have been asked and that honest answers were never given. All I have ever seen is that give me what I want, and if I don't get it, I will go ahead regardless of the rules and laws, and I don't care. They have always been one step ahead of the laws regarding building, septic, ect. ever since they have started. But I guess if you have money, that is OK and it will eventually get overlooked. I have seen it asked here over and over again, when would the average citizen be able to put in a septic system without the proper permits, but no one seems to want to address the issue. It would not happen. So why is Black Bear allowed to? Oh, I forgot, it is at their own risk! Oh no, I really forgot, bull _____ talks and ___________!!!

By Bravo to the Brave, Truth to the True on Wednesday, December 26, 2001 - 12:48 am:


By Nick Adams--From Christchurch, NZ on Tuesday, December 25, 2001 - 11:54 pm:


By Tom Cat on Tuesday, December 25, 2001 - 10:03 am:

Merry Christmas Keweenaw.

Tom Cat

By Toivo on Monday, December 24, 2001 - 09:59 pm:

Song, sung:
Then get ready for the tax assessor, cause he's coming your way - cause the County will need more money for those "high techies" coming to the Smart Park in Houghton.
They would love a piece of the pie in LLB, and will have the money to buy a slice.

By PAUL EAGLE RIVER on Monday, December 24, 2001 - 01:57 pm:


By Charles Buck on Sunday, December 23, 2001 - 03:08 pm:

Gay system:
I almost feel embarrassed to point this out. The reason for the relative silence here regarding Gay's system is because your publicly accountable township board is directly involved in the issue, weighing the options, and crafting the solution. Most of the discussion is taking place openly at township meetings. Someone does not have to drive to Marquette to get information or answers to questions. Maybe if someone cannot get to the township office because of an infirmity they could post a specific question about the Gay system and someone may have the answer.

By song sung on Sunday, December 23, 2001 - 01:37 am:

Oh but Toivo, I do live in LLB. I can afford to and I do pay taxes also. So I guess I am minding my own business. And, thank you Charles Buck!

By Maxwell Smart-alec on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 09:00 pm:

You're right, Call, and I think those high-heeled jobs should be outlawed. Perhaps a governmental buy-back could be implemented. Especially for those little black numbers with the six-inch heels. You know, the ones with the thin black leather straps. Stiletto comes to mind. At a minimum, they should be outlawed in school zones.
The no reason anyone in the public should posess such shoes.

By Call the shoe police on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 08:49 pm:

I realize Scott or someone will likely object, but wouldn't it be refreshing to begin debate on a new issue.

I propose we discuss: Shoe Control

This latest nut-case terrorist on a plane, armed with shoe, who likely hated the USA (and we should try to understand why) was able to purchase a shoe, without apparent background checks. What was it? A Buster Keaton hushpuppy?
Target penny-loafer? Danner hiking boot?

Terrorist, armed with a fully automatic slip-on, was able to bipass airport security....

Are Sorels next?

By Fredrick on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 08:40 pm:

Yadda yadda yadda

They don't want to buy the land, they just want to use it at their discretion when they want to use it. They can trash it, litter it, because it is their GIVEN RIGHT.

Developing land in the Keweenaw is going to limit their access and they don't want that because it is their GIVEN RIGHT.

Lake Superior Land was very generous to these locals with regard to access but that is changing as new people come in and develope and this is taking away their GIVEN RIGHT.

By Idiot Wind on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 08:23 pm:

I mean, really, if those santicmonious, I-Love-the-Keweenaw-more-than-you crowd would simply show something more than their blatant hypocrisy.....worried about a new system that will have to meet guidelines...when over on the shore south of town, in the metropolis of Gay, a system is being proposed and why?

Why? Why haven't we heard word one about this system and why it is even in the works? ANyone have an answer?

So for all the I-love-the-Keweenaw-more-than-you crowd, tell me why a system is in the works for Gay, why so little has been heard about that, and then explain your lack of concern for what has been happening to our precious Keweenaw in that area.

By Yadda yadda yadda on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 08:16 pm:

Concerning other possible development in the Bohemia area, in the words of Tommy Lee Jones,"I don't care!" The area is going to see development and it is happening now, by others, so get off Crosswinds back. If you don't want an area developed, buy the land.

Listening to the anti hill squad cluck about Bohemia's sewage system, still waiting to hear something about the system in the works for Gay, or is that system flawless. If it is, then by all means, let's install it all over K County.
Really, I read where Buck is worried about the system at Bohemai leaking into the lake obviously buck is not worried about the system proposed for Gay or did they have umpteen million public hearings already and we haven't heard about it because it isn't bohemia-related?

By Fredrick on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 04:25 pm:

Mr. Buck and Others

I get the impression that you don't have any faith in the DEQ. The DEQ will mandate specific requirements for the system and I would think that they will monitor the operation to make sure that the system remains within the guidelines. I'm also sure that these guidelines have taken into account the fact that LLB is in close proximity to the system. Could it be possible that the DEQ is not as efficient and qualified as they lead us to believe? I doubt it.

Now, lets talk about Crosswinds for a minute. It has been stated on this site that they have spent between 5 and 6 million dollars (cash ) on this project. I would like to suggest to you that any company that has that kind of CASH must be doing something right somewhere. Going back to some previous information on the internet about the Gliebermans, I discovered that they lost a lot of money during their short time in football. The point I am trying to make is that if they have millions to loose in a business venture and still have millions (CASH) to invest in Bohemia, they must have some real money. This tells me that they are not as stupid as some of you make them out to be. I, for one, don't have that kind of cash and I doubt that anyone up here has that kind of money. I don't think that every decision made by the Gliebermans has been the right one, but I would bet that they have made more good decisions than bad.

I think it is time to get off Lonie's case, and enjoy the mountain. Let other people enjoy it too.

I would bet that most of the local whiners couldn't match Crosswinds success.

Have a Happy Holiday Season and enjoy the snow.

By Charles Buck on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 03:46 pm:

Minding our own business:
But if Black Bear's sewage system for 750 skiers/day isn't sized or built correctly their problem seeps into Lac La Belle where it is everyone's problem. So Lac La Belle residents ARE minding their own business and you'll be glad they are every day you motor the lake and do not have to stop to clean the weeds off the prop. 750 skiers/day is a leap over the current permanent and seasonal population around the lake.

Listening to some cluck about DEQ and lakeshore residents' septics one might get the impression the lake is already an oxygen-starved, fishless, mat of salad. Go visit Big Pine Island Lake downstate. Holds the state largemouth bass record - you can't even hit the water with a lure anymore for all the coleslaw. Houses packed and stacked two and three deep around the shore. If you think Lac La Belle has a problem, get out and tour the country sometime. What a joke.

Mr. Fredrick: I'm shocked to even have the possibility finally opened to me that I may not be against the ski hill because it creates jobs! I'm so use to defending the SMP (Secret Master Plan), "National Wildlife Federation Talking Points Memo #7609: How to Keep the Keweenaw Barefoot and Pregnant." Am I allowed to call headquarters for instructions?

Happy Holidays, and hope for snow.

By moi on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 01:03 pm:

If you're from Lansing, of course you think snowmobiling sucks. Well, your city life sucks. Have a nice holiday.

By Lansing watch on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 12:24 pm:

Two flushes:
Yes, you have right to your opinion too! And yes, the DEQ will be coming to a town near you soon. Its only just begun!
Snowmobiling sucks too! And that's my opinion.

By Toivo on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 12:22 pm:

Sing, song, sung:
Ah, but I do own property in the area...and I know I can't afford to own more of it. But, I am not constantly whining about others who can afford to buy it, and develop it.
Minding my own about you?

And yes, verge of bankruptcy. Read the State law first. If one (of the five) Townships goes under, the entire County can be annexed by the adjoining County.
Maybe that would be for the best anyhow?

By More than two flushes to handle the pro hill people. on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 12:21 pm:

Well well, lets not overlook the fact that a marketing study was done some years ago. Basically the bottom line why it never was developed? Ski hill would not make it alone, would require additional development including but not limited to, condo's, marina at Bete Grise, two golf courses. Hmm, now what makes lonnie so special that Bohemia will survive without all these trimmings. Personally I am sick of the way you pro hill people whine about LLB and how the DEQ will come down on them like Copper Harbor. etc. Well the same time the DEQ comes down on LLB, why not extend it to Eagle River, we all know that the courthouse leaks sewage into Garden brook. How about taking a look a little to the south, Rice Lake how many antiquated sewer systems there? Hmm, Bootjack with all that development, Twin Lakes many cabins with old systems I am sure. Are all the houses along Hancock canal from the Hancock Bathing Beach to McClains park hooked to Houghton/Hancocks sewer treatment plant, Dont think so. So you pro hill whiners why not include all of the smelly places in the copper country and not focus so narrow mindedly on LLB. Bohemia sucks and I have a right to that opinion, born, raised and taxpayer here. Are you?

By Read National Geographic on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 11:00 am:

Hey Bluenight. You are obviously NOT from North Carolina. I have skied in North Carolina. There are multiple good slopes in North and South Carolina. They do have a tendency to get a little icy and the season is short. Lots of snow machines.

Get your facts straight first.

By Bluenight on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 10:30 am:

Hi: I am from North Carolina and would love to ski Mt. Bohemia. We do not have snow here, so it seems sking would be a lot of fun. I realize your brains are screwing up the mountain, so if I were you maybe you should just go and enjoy the beautiful sight and keep the mountain beautiful.

By song already sung on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 02:07 am:

The county on the verge of BK. That's an old song already sung before, and declared not true.
Reality bites? It sounds to me that you only wish you had a piece of the pie! If you don't live in LLB or own a piece of property, then maybe it is you that should mind your own business. I don't hear of anyone minding your backyard, so why should you mind anyone elses?

By Fredrick on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 11:30 pm:

Mr. Buck, Mr. Buck, Mr. Buck

The only retort to my self-caricaturing sarcasm which deserves a response is?????

We still don't have an answer after all that gooblie Gop.


By Fredrick on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 11:07 pm:


"The only retort to my self-caricaturing sarcasm which deserves a response"

After all of that Gooblie Gop in your article, you still haven't answered the question.

" Why are you really against the ski hill"

By Toivo on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 10:55 pm:

So what if Crosswinds wants to build fifty (2) bedroom cabins on the hill? The County is on the verge of bankruptcy...if one of the five townships goes under. Won't this help the tax base?
It will add $$$ to the economy as they projected from the beginning. They had the balls to invest in the Keweenaw...many don't.
Reality have your piece of the pie and so do they! Quite whining, and mind your own business. Why not make an effort to work with them instead of taking pot shots?
They are a private business venture, so why would they open their financial records to you or anyone else?
Get a life and mind your own business. Enjoy what you have, and not what you don't!

By Rain falling, the old man carries a fish on his back on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 10:09 pm:

A man said he would not kill the wolf because he saw so much in the wolf that was like him. As it is in the deer I watch in Decembers, amazing life that materializes from the trees, their steps in the snow pack so familiar by now. A mother and her yearling, and last year's daughter and I watch them as they watch another family group appear. You can see the tension in their stares, realize it as the first mother raises up and kicks at the new-comer. They are so much like me.

I wonder what they dream?

By Charles Buck on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 09:59 pm:

The usual suspects:
Talk about whining... The coarse din from you folks makes us ski hill watchdogs sound like lilting flutes by comparison. I do try my best to sink below the standard of this "ranting" forum, but it is difficult to match the benchmark set by some without resorting to the comparable use of tasteless slurs. Forgive me this shortcoming.

The only retort to my self-caricaturing sarcasm which deserves a response is the yurts. It is correct for the moment the yurts are not overnighters, but they are slated to morph into 50 two-bedroom cabins owned by condominium associations (source: John Sullivan letter 8/13/01). The prototype was postponed this year I hear.

Just uploaded to the library website Black Bear's interesting Rule 1089 "antidegradation demonstration" statement (aka social and economic impact statement) dated December 17. BB boldly states, "The ski hill is Keweenaw County's strongest economic contributor." King of the Mountain? True or False? They also say, "The ski hill has already contributed in excess of $6 million to the local economy with an additional conservative estimate of $20 million during the next 10 years." True or False? Raise your hand if you want to see the breakout on the $6 million+ figure. Sorry, it does not exist. Just have to give them the benefit of the doubt. BB also paints a dreary portrait of the county. Example, "Keweenaw County, an economically depressed area with few employment opportunities." And, "... the ski hill development is crucial to the economy of the Keweenaw." According to the US Department of Labor nonfarm employment increased 15 percent statewide from 1990 to 1999; Grand Rapids, 30 percent; Ann Arbor and Jackson, 16 percent; Detroit, 14 percent; Lansing, 8 percent; Flint, 2 percent. Listening to Black Bear you would never think the number of nonfarm employed in Keweenaw County increased 60 percent from 1990 to 1999. Granted there's never too little unemployment.

BB flicks some barbs at the watchdogs: "There has been some opposition to the ski hill development from a group of people who are against general development in the area. This group wishes to preserve the Keweenaw its (sic) current state and objects to any proposed changes." Remind me, did we make a fuss about the Calumet Radar Base development? Won't hear a peep from me as long as the guards are not treating the detainees like reindeer and the sewage does not overflow. "Against general development?" Another throw-away line of mumbo jumbo.

By Fredrick on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 04:18 pm:


If memory serves me correct, the original application to the county was for a system that was capable of handling LLB residents at their expense. I would think that this cost would be less than having to do the whole project on their own. I also believe that Lonnie had similar guarantees in place for the county. This was also turned down because of the whiners. You are right, their day will come and I hope they have deep pockets when they are on their own.

A lot of this was stirred up by our lighthouse friend and where is he now?

My theory on his opposition is still the same. He was hoping that the Crosswinds people would go away if he created enough stumbling blocks and guess what, it back fired. I guess they have more money and determination than he figured.

This leads me to my next thought. Is it possible that they did not build a promised day lodge because they were put in a situation where thay had to spend a lot of capital this year to build the sewage system and they are going to wait a year or so to get back on their plan. I don't know.

Oh well, enough for now. I hope everybody has a Happy Holiday Season, including all the whiners.

By Toivo on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 03:48 pm:

Same songwriter:
You have only half the story...Lonnie was willing to design the system for expansion, as residents became willing to pay their fair share. Crosswinds also had built in three layers of liability to protect the Township from assuming liability, you missed that at the hearings!
But nobody wanted to listen. Now the lakedwellers will be on their own when the DEQ comes to town and mandates sewer improvements.
Just watch.

By You Made Your Bed on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 01:15 pm:

Let's assume that Crosswinds built the ski hill so they can develop the area with homes, condos, etc. How can they develop the area if there wasn't a sufficiant sewer system? Is that system going to jump over or go around people already there? The only reason that the system would NOT include locals is that they(locals) think their septic tanks will hold fine... But if the day comes when LLB, like Gay & Copper Harbor before, needs a system, they will have to pay for it without the help of the largest & wealthist business in LLB. A grant only covers part of the cost. Now with Crosswinds building their own system, they are in the drivers seat for developing LLB. Will Rick Olsen be able to afford a proper system to support his hotel project? Maybe if he works a deal with Crosswinds.

Ask some Copper Harbor residents, not businesses but residents, what their water & sewer bills are. I know that some are paying well over a grand a year. Remember, the CH system has several business to support its cost and will be relatively cheaper than a LLB system.

I'm afraid that the LLB residents could be creating the senerio they are fearing.

By tired of the same old song, did I say song? on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 11:13 am:

If the grant money was applied for and received, what about Black Bear wanting the county (if they had applied) or the township to assume responsibilty or liability for the system? (It seems that some here seem to forget this.) And the system built with the grant money wouldn't even be designed for all of LLB to connect to? Why would anyone living there or owning property want this? It appears to me that others posting here do not own property in LLB and only wish they could. I'm sure if they did, they would be singing (whining) a different tune.

By OOPS!! You did it again. on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 10:03 am:

No Whining - How about some facts

When you plan a ski resort what do you need?

1. A Mountain with snow. Bohemia fits the bill. Always said so and always thought it would be a good slope. Never argued that fact. If I was a better skier I wouldn't mind skiing it myself.

2. Infrastructure. OOPS!!

IF you plan a proper development, these are the things you do FIRST!! Little things like water, power, sewage, communications, transportation.

Water? Drill a well. (Hope the sewage doesn't contaminate the ground water.)

Power? Thank you UPPCO.

Sewage? OOPS!! (Read the posts.)

Communications? OOPS!!
Telephone sure but high speed internet lines? (T1-3, fiber) Total cell phone and pager coverage? (GSM, CDPD, CDMA, TDMA & Analog)

Transportation? OOPS!!
KC Road Department does well but a 2 lane winding road that is hard packed? And where is the air strip for private planes and jets down by the Gratiot River? Public Transportation availability?? Face it, Lac La Belle was more accessible before WW1 when they tore up the train tracks for the war effort.

3. A Lodge. OOPS!!
Just where are people supposed to stay? A yurt doesn’t cut the mustard. Just talk to the Wescotts about kids showing up all hours of the night looking for a room. If you want them camping on your property just let us know and we will send them over. You could rent your yard out by the square yard. If a yurt is a permanent structure then is my deer stand one too?

4. Beginner slopes. OOPS!!
Everybody knows that the REAL money in skiing is in families. Families spend a LOT of $$$. We all know how expensive spouses and kids are.

5. More than 1 hill. OOPS!!
Did everybody forget about Mt. Houghton, which is right next door to Bohemia and is taller?

We are not complaining about the slope or development of Bohemia, we just don’t like the 2-bit, nickel & dime approach and the lies that have been perpetrated.

If Lonnie came in PROPERLY FUNDED, If Lonnie came in and told the TRUTH, If Lonnie came in and didn’t act like the crass developer he is (ie. Always use other peoples monies – read the posts) we would support him.

Now the market has crashed, the economy is in recession. Lonnie was always under funded. The probability of Bohemia being anything other than a local slope always on the edge of bankruptcy is minimal.

You want a bankrupt 2-bit ski slope in your backyard?? Take it, it’s yours. We don’t want it.

By Yalmer and Lempi on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 09:22 am:

“Hey Lempi, have ya heard dey are still whining up der in Keveenaw about dat ski hill”?

“Yalmer, ain’t it the way it goes, its always something”.

“Ya, Lempi, the ski hill asked the people to get some grant to build a sewer, over the hill, away
from da lake and everything, but dey wouldn’t go for it. I heard dat system was really the long-term solution with no pollution, eh”?

“Yalmer, you know dey didn’t want the hill, were mad about losing the election for the zoning so dos folks did not want Lonie to get help, like it was revenge or something”.

“Ya, I know, Lempi, so da ski hill had to pay for da sewer themselves, but without the grant help, did just what anyone in Keveenaw would, made it only big enough for now. And now its right in the back yard of some of dos anti folks. Talk about revenge!”

“Hey Yalmer, that Lonie has really hung in there, ya gotta say, eh? Da nitpickers are driving him and the bureaucrats nuts. Dos poor government workers at da county, health dep’t and DEQ, don’t know what to do, can hardly make a decision anymore, dey are so afraid”. Its no wonder Lonie didn’t build a lodge this year, and now they complain about dat, too. I spose if he built a big log lodge or cabins, dey would complain he cut down trees to build it. Its always something”.

“Ya, no kidding, Lempi. What will it be next?”

By Power-whiners are people too on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 05:44 am:

I think the whining comes down to not getting what they want. Patrick McManus defined whining, specifically, the power-whine, as a trait perfected by his sisters when they didn't get what they wanted. Their response to their mother, when they felt down-trodden by Patrick, was: MOM!

And is only the sewage system at Bohemia an issue?
I think the Gazette ran some coverage of the system that will be coming to Gay. I assume that system must be state-of-the-art, perfect and reliable, without fault, as I have heard nothing either negative or positive about it from the power-whiners or Keweenaw Now.

I suppose if they investigated, they would discover that had they tried to tie Lac La Belle into the system Crosswinds had proposed they could have slowed development of the hill for a long time. When was the birth date for the system for Gay? I don't recall the media informing us. Is it in place yet? I think not.

By Forestwatcher on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 11:27 pm:

Chuck Buck:
Sounds like you got some answerin' to do? I think recent posts really captured the issue. All the South shore whiners now have DEQ crawling thru the woods, baseline water studies on LacLabelle, etc. Yes, if some would have seen the forest thru the trees the expansion capability of the wastewater system proposed months ago, could have involved local residents. But, they would rather have the State come in and mandate it for them! Just hang on...Lansing will be here to help you shortly. Open your pocket books...and I don't blame Lonnie if he laughs in your face!

By Let's get the facts straight on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 09:18 pm:

Talk about false rumors! Are you going to start that one again about the grant money being for the residences of LLB also? The grant money was for the hill and the hill alone. It NEVER was going to be for all of LLB. So, please get your facts straight. We wouldn't want to start any false rumors now, would we?

By Fredrick on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 08:51 pm:


You are right about Grant Monies. Smart business people will always take the time to research grant monies and go after them if they qualify. Why not? The government has made tax payer funds available for specific projects for many many years. One needs to be smart enough to research this opprtunity, work through the process and get it done. We all pay taxes and if there was a grant available for me, I would go after it. Any grant that results in any form of benefit for an area should be applied for because you know darn well that if you don't, somone else will. I'll bet that there are other grant opportunities available out there that would be applicable for something in this area. Every little bit helps and
possibly can lead to another employer.

By Bigbrotherbilly on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 08:22 pm:


I think you hit the nail on the head. Also the whiners' way of thinking is as antiquated as their septic systems. I think they are taking a fresh look at the fact that their hatred for progress (MT BOHEMIA) made them lose out on some grant money to update their systems. Now they just hide behind false rumors and sarcasm to make themselves feel better about their mistake.

By Fredrick on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 08:11 pm:


I am wondering if some of these whiners are worried about DEQ spending more time in the area and discovering some of the antiquated or un-serviced septic systems.

You are right about a developer spending his own money. If he is investing cash as you say instead of borrowed money, then he is more dedicated to the project. Lets face it, most business men invest someone else's money and that way if it fails, so be it. This is how all successfull business people operate.

There is something bothering these whiners and it has nothing to do with the ski hill.

By Bigbrotherbilly on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 06:06 pm:

Just watching,

You talk about throwing your house over some silly hatred you have about the ski hill? I don't see why you have to worry about trusting the ski hill they're not using your money. Don't forget all development has been done with cash money. Show me another developer that is willing to stick their neck for a couple of million just so people can have a nice place to ski. Come on WHINERS lets hear the real story behind your hatred for the Hill!

By Fredrick on Thursday, December 20, 2001 - 03:38 pm:


I have to respond to a couple of your answers.

1) Most ridiculous statement ever made. Addressing zoning issues is part of being in involved in public office as well as many other duties.

2) What about the construction people, electricians, plumbers and others that were paid by local contractors to build the runs, build the parking lot, build the sewage system etc.? Do they not count, and do they not pay local taxes and spend their dollars in the area?

3) Doesn't deserve a comment.

4) You agree

5) I realize that there is a small markup in gasoline, however, what else do these people buy?
Why do you think that gas stations added all of the items they sell? Certainly not for taking up
counter space.

6) Financial books contains information for the owner, IRS and a bank if there is financing involved. You sound like Janet Shea when you state that this information should be public. I would like to see you open your personal financial information to the public. You and I both know what the answer to that would be.
Now I am not a ski hill operator, however, I am a retired business man and feel quite proud of having the ability to retire on the rewards of my previous hard work.

7) The world operates on dollars and cents and it doesn't matter if it is at a business level or a private working individual level.

I would like to suggest to you that you are one of these people that has their little piece of the Keweenaw and the rest of the citizens don't matter.

Also to Janet Shea's remarks in which she asks if we want an area that promotes drinking and wild behaviour for the college crowd. All I can say is "Lady, you have that already." There are parties up at the Harbor each year and from what my son says, they are pretty good parties. He has been there for a few of them and the majority of the young people there are from the area.


By Old Timer on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 07:41 pm:

Area sportsmen and women should find the article in Field and Stream by George Reiger interesting.
Reiger tells us that the money we have spent on licenses, as well as other moneys we have spent, has been misused . He says, "the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) is no longer meeting its wildlife management obligations to sportsmen under the Pittman-Robertson and Dingell-Johnson (P-R and D-J, a.k.a. Wallop-Breaux) acts.

The article, titled:

The Myth of Wildlife Management
by George Reiger


As experienced oversight workers were replaced by people who didn't care about‹or were even downright hostile to‹hunting, state and federal conservation administrators found that they could use, with increasing impunity, P-R funds for purposes other than game management. A few years ago, the General Accounting Office found that the USFWS had diverted between $40 million and $50 million of these earmarked monies to other agencies with little or no stake in wildlife management. Most scandalous of all, the people in charge had paid themselves substantial "bonuses" for doing so. But because accountability is increasingly rare in public service, no one was punished.

can be read in full at

By just watching on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 06:53 pm:

Big Brother,

The original plan was to have the Yurts temporary the FIRST YEAR, then the permanent lodge would be built for the second year..

Sounds like 'winds keep changing their minds. Frist it was no grant for the sewer no hill, that changed.. Now they want the temp yurts to be classified permanent.....

I personally don't trust them as far as I can throw my house!

By Bigbrotherbilly on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 05:10 pm:

Chuck Buck,

#3 on your posting shows that your head is truly up your Heineken if you think the yurts are set up for overnight stays!! They are just for daily ticket sales,snack shops etc.

By Barf Tarter on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 05:12 am:

"Bohemia pays taxes" - to reimburse the local governments for the extensive time officials have spent addressing their complex zoning and permitting problems.

Your response to Fredrick is laughable. You well know that property taxes go toward many other services and the time spent addressing the questions addressed was time well spent.

The financial books of the ski hill are a state secret, so we will have to convene a commission to take testimony from local businesses: "Are you now or have you ever been a ski hill vendor?" ;)

And during your witch trial, how about you bring in all local businesses and put them in the dunking chair and ask them to see their financial books. I guess the area will see a decrease in population, which I assume is your ultimate goal. ;)

altho' I would not be one to stress the economic development virtues of gasoline price gouging.

This is something you should bring up during your witch trial. Perhaps you could use it as a burning match to the pyre you place under the feet of local business as you try to get at their financial books.

Your #7 is laughable as well. I guess you don't have a porch light burning, that those on your side keep their septic systems tuned, in fact, I assume they know where their systems are located. Every crime and misdemeanor you allege against the other can easily be attributed to your side.

Not all gas is unleaded, some is in the form of flatulance posted by whiners on this site.
Worth repeating.
Thanks for the chuckle.

By Charles Buck on Wednesday, December 19, 2001 - 12:01 am:

1) "Bohemia pays taxes" - to reimburse the local governments for the extensive time officials have spent addressing their complex zoning and permitting problems.

2) "Bohemia pays local contractors which hires people from the area" - full employment service for UP Engineers: the kings of designing palatial facilities when its on the public's dime and cutting corners when money has to come out of a private owner's pocket.

3) "Bohemia attracts skiers that stay in motels, hotels and B&B's" - forgeting about those self-contained yurts, aren't ya?

4) "Bohemia attracts skiers that eat in local establishments" - I will grant you that.

5) "Bohemia attracts skiers that buy gasoline in local gas stations" - gasoline is generally a low profit margin comsumable compared to coffee, donuts, candy bars, and smokes at quickie marts, but the county has so few stations and competition I will grant you the stations are pumping people as they pump, altho' I would not be one to stress the economic development virtues of gasoline price gouging.

6) "Bohemia spends money in local business establishments ie: fuel, printing, food, etc.etc." - apparently not enough. The financial books of the ski hill are a state secret, so we will have to convene a commission to take testimony from local businesses: "Are you now or have you ever been a ski hill vendor?" ;)

7) "There have to be local people employed, selling tickets, food, lift operations etc.etc." - who did they hire and put in charge of local payoffs and wired contracts? No one on our side has heard from them and we are all just waiting for our share of the booty and then we will shut up about sewage seepage, lake eutrophication, groundwater contamination, runoff soil erosion, wetlands degradation, light pollution, cultural artifact destruction, zoning ordinance enforcement consistency, long-range land use planning, ski lift safety, political barrel-rolling. Yep, it's all just dollars and cents to us hard-bitten naysayers. ;)

By realist on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 11:58 pm:

The area(Keweenaw) has been in the process of
being developed by "outsiders" for several years.
If you think that the ski hill is the cause you
are greatly mistaken. The TRUTH of the matter is,
much of
the "anti-hill" people are people that have bought
and/or developed property in the area and MOST are
from outside the area. The SAD part would of been
this; if the area developed without any new
industries to help compensate the increase in
property values, living, etc.

By Opprtunity knocks, I ain't answerin' on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 10:22 pm:

My prediction for the evening...
Of course the local business' see a slight increase in catering to the skiers needs...for now.
And, when Lonnie pulls the big lie out, by turning the ski hill into a rich people home development, the business' will still see the effects of increased sales...
And, when the rich transplants come in and build their half-million $$$ homes...
And when they start dictating to the locals how they want their Keweenaw....
And, when... all pis*s*s me off so much that their are still suckers here....
I need a drink !

By Bigbrotherbilly on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 07:58 pm:

Finally somebody got it all together in one posting!! Now maybe the whiners will put up or shut-up.
Not all gas is unleaded, some is in the form of flatulance posted by whiners on this site.

By Fredrick on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 07:47 pm:


1)Bohemia pays taxes

2)Bohemia pays local contractors which hires people from the area

3)Bohemia attracts skiers that stay in motels, hotels and B&B's

4)Bohemia attracts skiers that eat in local establishments

5)Bohemia attracts skiers that buy gasoline in local gas stations

6)Bohemia spends money in local business establishments ie: fuel,printing,food,etc.etc.

7)There have to be local people employed, selling tickets, food, lift operations etc.etc.


As for drinking, read the article in the DMG a few days ago where a lady writes that this area has a booze problem already, so don't blame the college crowd. LOOK IN THE MIRROR.

I'm sure that Bohemia is not the end to all when it comes to bolstering the local economy but ask the local business community if they haven't rented out a few more rooms, served a few more meals, sold a little more gas or beer. I would think that all of these business people appreciate another source of income.

Why don't you tell us the real reason for your dislike for Bohemia.

By curious on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 07:06 pm:

Big Brother..

I am sure that people from Houghton are not whining..

(read this with heavy sarcasm) In the event you failed to notice - all gas is unleaded...

By Bigbrotherbilly on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 04:16 pm:


You're right!! There is not one single local working on Mt Bohemia!! Everyone of the employees lives in Livonia and makes the daily trek to the hill. How can they possibly hire any locals when all the locals whine about the eyesore that the PRIVATELY OWNED HILL has become. The whiners still gripe about local help but who wants to hire whiners that want everything handed to them?
Also is it true that Lonnie uses unleaded gas in his car??!! Tsk Tsk! Next he'll start drilling in your back yard for oil!!

By curious on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 06:57 am:

How many locals are to be working at Bohemia this year??

I hear NONE! Is that true?

Is anyone willing to answer these questions?

By This land is your land on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 06:02 am:

Interesting article. I wonder if the nobility will be prosecuted? Sounds like they have had a severe-talking-to. Also interesting and of note is that one of the staff biologists at the National Forest mentioned in the article is Steve Lanigan. Steve has a B.S. Biology degree from Michigan Technological University.

I wonder if he was one of the criminals who tried to deny the public access to their land?

By something on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 05:32 am:

*Land that was previously forest conservation is now fully taxable meaning that the county will receive much more income from this land than before.
*Mt Bohemia has already provided $20,000 in tax revenues to area municipalities

By Let Me Blow Ya’ Mind by Doc Frank N. Furthur—Pay No Mind to that Pink Elephant Behind the Sequined Curtain, I Say Pay No Mind… on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 02:19 am:


Hey folks, here’s a real scientific mind-opener for both sacred and secular thinkers:

December 18, 2001
Defining the Undefinable: The Living Cell
Much as people may wish these days for the comforts of a few black and white distinctions — between good and evil, democracy and tyranny, friends and fiends — our restless color wheel of a world refuses to comply. And that law of equivocation and qualification, scientists say, extends down to the most basic distinction of all: whether something is alive or not.
By The King of Wishful Thinking on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 12:37 am:

Maybe Mr. Glieberman is just a mysterious gift-giver, a generous magi(from the deep southeast) willing to break even or even operate at a minor loss in order to give the Keweenaw a World Class Ski Hill, a hill that might someday even attract Olympic trials.
And combined with MTU, Finlandia U, Keweenaw Symphony, KNHP, Calumet Theater, Motherlode, Michigan House, Mariner North(or whatever it’s being called today) Rosza Center etc etc it contributes to a fertile womb of local/global culture, impregnated both from within and without, leading to a beautiful baby perennially born, from year to year, a regional happening well worth happening…

…the bikinied snow-bunnies are just a little PR sizzle to get young men’s attention, and the drinking….yes well the drinking…so when hasn’t a little healthy drinking been part of Copper Country Culture, eh?
Just make sure to keep them off the highway! Perhaps they could communally camp overnight before a crackling fireplace in one of them yurts entertained by local musicians?

By just wondering? on Tuesday, December 18, 2001 - 12:13 am:

Put their money where their mouth is? Maybe you can give us an example. What have they have done for the economy of the area. I sure don't see the supporters voicing their opinions here and defending Black Bear. Maybe they are just as fed up as the rest of us are with their broken promises!

By Give'em credit on Monday, December 17, 2001 - 10:58 pm:

To all the Naysayers....including Ms. Shea. At least the Mt. Bohemia folks have put their money where their mouth is. When was the last time you invested a dime in trying to improve the local economy (besides shopping at Pamida?)
Whine, whine, whine...that is all we hear from the South Shore NIBY's.

By Just another lonely Keweenaw stud... on Monday, December 17, 2001 - 09:20 pm:

Please read Mr. Freshwaters posting on the responsible opinions page of this site...
Right on Paul, I couldn't have said it better myself.
Also, as someone said here last week...
Can anyone show me what the ski hill has done for the Keweenaw ? I still haven't seen anyone voice their answer to this...

By Bill Bradley on Monday, December 17, 2001 - 08:27 pm:


Since when did women wearing bikinis start the
"exploitation of women"

Women have been wearing Bikinis at the beach for many many years and I would suggest to you that this was at their own free will and choice.

I don't have any comments about the other issues with regards to Mt.Bohemia because I don't live there and quite frankly it is none of my business, however, the exploitation of women comment is certainly living in the dark ages or a closet.

By SpeedTrap on Monday, December 17, 2001 - 04:43 pm:

Everyone please read Janet Shea's great article on Mt. Bohemia and Mr. Lonie Glieberman' great development which the people got suckered into voting for on Keweenaw Now. She tells it like it is and it is right on target. I have those yellow flyers and this is what they say:

Mt. Bohemia will bring 60 million dollars into Keweenaw economy in just the first five years.

Next to Michigan Tech, Mt. Bohemia will be the biggest contributor to the Keweenaw Economy.

If you look at the Hill, the yurts rather than a lodge, used ski lifts, unfinished parking lot, erosion and an septic system unfinished, on hold waiting for final approval, would you say that the Flyer is correct? And now, he wants to promote drinking and carousing and exploitation of women. Anything to get you skiing! When Kermit's Kids ski on the hill, as was promised, I will take this all back.

By Red Jacket on Monday, December 17, 2001 - 10:14 am:

Actually, the "liberal media" fallacy is promoted by the cuckoo birds who'd like everyone to forget that newspapers, radio, TV, etc. are huge businesses with investments in the status quo. A few reporters may have liberal ideas, but their publishers make sure that most of those ideas never see the light of day. The DMG is a great example of the "liberal media".

By pampered on Monday, December 17, 2001 - 09:55 am:

Here's a story that the liberal press let slip by:

It reminds me of a great bumper sticker I saw the other day:

"If you're not outraged--you're not paying attention."

By Variaton on the Big Green Monster on Monday, December 17, 2001 - 06:18 am:

Rare lynx hairs found in forests exposed as hoax


Federal and state wildlife biologists planted false evidence of a rare cat species in two national forests, officials told The Washington Times. Had the deception not been discovered, the government likely would have banned many forms of recreation and use of natural resources in the Gifford Pinchot National Forest and Wenatchee National Forest in Washington state.
The previously unreported Forest Service investigation found that the science of the habitat study had been skewed by seven government officials: three Forest Service employees, two U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service officials and two employees of the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife.

"It was rigged from the word go; it was full of bad biology and bad politics," Mr. Beers said. "It gave them [the federal government] carte blanche to go after ski resorts, stop road building and go after ranchers and tree cutters."

Considering there are people who would like to list much of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan as Canadian Lynx habitat, this article in the Washington Times is enlightening, considering gumment burrocrats, most of whom were never elected, were in positions to influence policy in a way that would have harmed the public.
By Life in a small town, you don't know what you did until you hear it from the neighbors on Monday, December 17, 2001 - 05:56 am:

The greater Gay metro area likely had to install a sewage system because many if not all of the systems there were non-existent. Sewage found its way to a local ditch.

What would happen if the gumment burrowcrats came knocking on doors in the area and asked area residents, some who are not residing in the area, where their septic system is located, how old is it, and when was the last time it was serviced?

A good amount of concern was shown for Bohemia's sewage system. I seriously doubt Keweenaw Now would attempt any kind of reporting on area septic systems--unless it would be to invite someone else to do a story on it.

With the latest Health Department regulations (are they gumment burrowcrats, too?) concerning septic systems, ground water, soil conditions, and knowing that today many looking to build a Ponderosa in the Pines have been denied permits, its difficult not to be annoyed at the double standard that is repeatedly applied to anything attempted at Mt. Bohemia.

By Stuy on Sunday, December 16, 2001 - 10:37 pm:

How can you say all of the college students will be gone. Many students do leave but but there is a lot that stay. I bet Uphill-41 will be packed with college students and locals for the bikini contest. It will be a good time for all.

The reason Black Bear is staying with just the yurts is because of all the money invested in the sewage system. If they would have received the grant they could have used the money for a restaurant and cabins.

What is going to happen when the state forces Lac La Belle to put in a sewage system. Gay which is a lot smaller than Lac La Belle has to put in a sewage system. Will Grant Township turn down grant money for Lac La Belle.

By Charles Buck on Sunday, December 16, 2001 - 05:14 pm:

Hank Snow:
Careful what you wish for because Mt. Bohemia is not by a stretch the only Keweenaw business dependent upon Mother Nature's drifting mercy. If Bohemia fails, better it be due to the graces of the citizenry or the stupidity of her owners than a general catastrophe such as no snow. With that in mind, the National Weather Service has issued a threat assessment forecasting heavy snow for the Great Lakes region December 20 and onward - Mt. Bohemia is tentatively slated to open Friday, December 21. Favor cannot shine as brightly upon the intelligence of Mt. Bohemia's owners. They scheduled their bacchanalian "College Week" fest during the first week of January when Michigan Tech and Finlandia are between semester classes and all their students have vacated the Copper Country for southern homes. I dare say the only contestant in the giggle contest could be Michigan Tech's dean of students. Whoa be onto those who attempt to drink to that.

By Hank Snow on Sunday, December 16, 2001 - 01:59 pm:

Two Tags Most of the people who live in the Lac La Belle area view the ski hill as a scam and that is what it realy is. Where are the jobs, Lonnie fired everyone who worked for the hill last year and has all new people from out of the area this year. All those people that thought this hill was so good for the area, what do you think now. Some will never change their minds because their minds are so small they can't go out alone, they need a grownup with them.
Mother Nature will make this scam right, we don't have any snow and the outlook for the next week looks like no snow. Another winter like last winter and Loonie won't be hiring anyone at the hill. Mt Bohemia will be back to like it was with a few open shooting lanes for deer hunting.

By Jean on Sunday, December 16, 2001 - 02:24 am:

Now, where is me shoe? Hi could you or someone else bring me up to speed and tell me more about the missing yellow slips? Also needed is the area code for the number to the consumer agency that you mentioned.

By Wha happened? on Saturday, December 15, 2001 - 11:32 pm:

Someone explain to me exactly What the ski hill has done for the area...
IE Jobs, spinoff business, whatever...
Seriously, can someone tell me this ?

By Now, where is me shoe? on Saturday, December 15, 2001 - 09:55 pm:

Please everyone concerned about the Bear:

Write to the Consumer and Industry Affairs
East Bloated Drive
Okemos, Michigan

Or call them at 555-7448

And tell them your opinion on the missing yellow slips. Don't allow this opportunity to hinder the Bear to slip from our grasp! Surely, we can sic the bloated bureacracy, and vast majority of which is not elected by the people to somehow hinder the Bear to the point where there will not be a ski hill on Bohemia!

By Two-tags climbs a ski lift, poiple in color on Saturday, December 15, 2001 - 09:50 pm:

Really, I think Two-tags should be given to Mt. Bohemia (Black Bear) as a token of Keweenaw County's appreciation for a new business in da area. At least most of the people who stay inthe area believed, and continue to believe, that the ski hill enterprise (and ALL of the related infrastructure) is good for the area.

By Bigbrotherbilly on Saturday, December 15, 2001 - 09:38 pm:

Semper fu,

If you recall our own local law enforcement also promotes college drinking. They are out in full force protecting MTU's finest on their annual Senior Drunk Walk.

By Semper FI, You Can't Handle the Truth. on Saturday, December 15, 2001 - 01:37 pm:

Very Good Janet Shea:
You forgot the nice glossy pictures of Dr. Rowe and his family promoting the hill as a family fun place? Now that the college weekend will fall under the category of family fun I wonder if the commisioners wives will be in the bikini contest? Wonder if the courthouse crew will be in it? Will the winner be crowned miss bikini Bohemia? Wheres the bunny hill paul? Geez sorry if Ms. Shea confuses family fun as not being drunken college preppies on the slopes, highways and sidewalks of the copper country. Wonder if local law enforcement will turn their heads to the drunken college students on the highway like they do for the drunken deer hunters on the highways going from camp to bar, to bar, and back to camp again? Many of us locals do not ride the snowmobile trails due to the drunken snowmobile riders, seems like it would be a good idea to stay off the roads during this skiing free for all. If Breakwinds does not get the permit for the sewer will Bohemia turn yellow? Remember kiddies dont eat yellow snow.

By Two-tags climbs a tree barometer on Saturday, December 15, 2001 - 05:56 am:

Or how about a wood barometer, measuring the cords of wood removed from Keweenaw County? Possible?

By Two-tags climbs the snow barometer on Saturday, December 15, 2001 - 05:54 am:

So let it snow! Let it snow! Let it snow!

By Two-tags skiis Bohemia on Saturday, December 15, 2001 - 05:52 am:

Bohemia not to open! But I want to ski!

By Two-tags revenge on Saturday, December 15, 2001 - 04:56 am:

Bohemia shoulod not be allowed to open this year until there is a public hearing and a full accounting of the missing yellow cards! In fact, the hearing should take place summer of '02, so area residents not residing in the area can participate! Yippee AYE KI-AAAAA!

By just wondering? on Friday, December 14, 2001 - 11:49 pm:

Ignorance reigns!!! What more can you expect???
Come on people, wake up. Is this what you want for the youth of the area?

By Bill Bradley on Friday, December 14, 2001 - 09:00 pm:


The end of the world is coming and all these College people are going straight to H---.

I wonder what closet Janet grew up in. College people aren't the only people that drink. College people aren't the only people that enjoy at little fun on the side, if you know what I mean.

Bring on the snow and the Bikini Contest and let's have fun.

By The Kumquat Haagen-Daaz on Friday, December 14, 2001 - 08:18 pm:

I think we need an in-depth report by Keweenaw Now on the missing yellow cards. And promoting drinking? Gaads! Another Helltown! Wonder if the lonely lighthouse keeper will show up, complete with free beer and brats? Hmmmmm?
And if this bikini contest has anything to do with the weather, Yippee aye ki aye!!! All we need now are some frat boys to ski down the hill, or walk the catwalk at Uphill gloved in bikini, to put the keebosh to the idea that it denigrates women, college women.

By Copper Sulfide on Friday, December 14, 2001 - 04:07 pm:

Wonder if any of the CFL cheerleaders will be at the bikini contest. Hear locals talking about The Gratiot Blonde attending, with Rubber Legs and Chipmunk as the judges.

By Red Jacket on Friday, December 14, 2001 - 03:04 pm:

I guess the idea is that the young people will have something to do and the girls of the area may be able to earn some money on the side.

By Learning every day on Friday, December 14, 2001 - 03:01 pm:

I didn't realize that nobody was working on
thehill. Interesting.

Speaking of football, didn't Crosswinds donate
some equipment to some of the area high schools?

What's wrong with an expensive playground?

I remember people upset that Crosswinds was going
to have kayak tours and compete against the
"local" Keweenaw Adventure Company and now they
dropped that aspect of their business and people
are crying, "Where's the Kayaks?"

What, put old people on that "dangerous, old, and
poorly colored lift" so they can see leaves change

A liquor license at the hill would keep the people
and money in Keweenaw county and not Houghton
county. Why would they do they do that?

By just wondering? on Friday, December 14, 2001 - 12:00 pm:

Just finished reading Janet Shea's article. While reading it, I kept remembering about a football team and cheerleaders. It seems to me that all LLB got was a very expensive playground. What about all the promises that were made? Was there kayaking tours this summer? I didn't hear about any? What about the lifts being used to take people up to see the colors? Jobs? How many actual jobs do the locals have working at the hill? On and on. It seems to me that maybe the opposition wasn't so wrong after all. Reading the promotions about the events planned,I think is now one of the biggest reasons the county and everyone else should have taken more time and got more answers before going ahead with the hill. What is next on the agenda? An application for a liquor license at the hill? (After the yurts are declared permanent structures?)

By Tom Cat on Friday, December 14, 2001 - 11:07 am:

The Bear Tree is in the safe hands of the Keweenaw County Road Comission. Are there any ideas what they should do with the Bear Tree (two tags)????????

Tom Cat

By A Child Should Be A Fish on Friday, December 14, 2001 - 02:59 am:

Dr. Strange.jpg

By Alas, Poor Yorick on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 11:51 pm:

Tom recently ran an interesting series on why overhauling America’s energy policy may be the most urgent task before us all. Yesterday they came out with a new op-ed and links to articles appearing at Grist on the subject of debunking what some on “The Right” might label another religious hijacker – Danish Professor of Statistics, Bjorn Lomborg, whose recent book-length polemic, The Skeptical Environmentalist, was apparently based on scientifically-inaccurate analyses leading to unsupported conclusions like these(and sold, at the time--as if inerrant--to many Mass Media outlets):

"We will not lose our forests; we will not run out of energy, raw materials, or water. We have reduced atmospheric pollution in the cities of the developed world and have good reason to believe that this will also be achieved in the developing world. Our oceans have not been defiled, our rivers have become cleaner and support more life. ... Nor is waste a particularly big problem. ... The problem of the ozone layer has been more or less solved. The current outlook on the development of global warming does not indicate a catastrophe. ... And, finally, our chemical worries and fear of pesticides are misplaced and counterproductive."

Click here to read a short Grist Magazine introductory piece posted at Tom containing links to all the scientific articles debunking Lomborg’s data and conclusion:

By bally-ho on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 08:25 pm:

Nobody but us chickens.

By q tip on Thursday, December 13, 2001 - 08:15 pm:

There hasn't been a post here since Tuesday at 3:35PM????


By pampered on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 03:35 pm:

Q: "what in blazes is PHS thinking?"

A: Not about Dr. Mary's patients.

When Dr. Limback leaves, so will many others. I, for one, will head straight to Mayo Clinic.

By D. Berry on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 03:29 pm:


Thanks. Reading between the lines, I gather that Portage Health System is interfering negatively with her practice somehow. Based on your comments and on all the other comments I've seen, I have to ask what in blazes is PHS thinking?

By Proud to live in Keweenaw on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 01:15 pm:

A 21 yr. old kid drinks a bottle of radiator
fluid. A 48 yr. old woman dies from exposure and
a blood alcohol level of .45.

I was told once, "when you die, you're not moving
an inch because heavens right here."

Oh ya, where's the bear tree going?

By Grateful on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 12:17 pm:

To D Berry
Dr Limback should go back to private practice.She then would be able to practice out of any hospital
and would have control over her own decisions.
She saved my life of which i am forever grateful for.I trust no other doctor here as a result of her astute mind and caring manner.This women has given me an extra 4 years of life and who knows how many more.I probably increased her case load as a result of recommending her to many surgical patients.I still hear from her yearly on a personal level.She calls and asks how i am doing.
Portage Health System will suffer because of the
loss of her practice.Hope she does not move too far, it will be a long but worthwhile drive for a check up.

By Tom Cat on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 12:04 pm:

Who has taken the bear tree? and where do they have it? Did they cut it up? Those are the questions(da kids) a few thousand tourists will be asking this coming summer.I for one would think that we should have a very good answer for the people that spend money in Keweenaw County this summer.They will be looking for the Bear Tree. If it could be saved it should be put on display some where. Does anyone Know the rest of the story?

Tom Cat

By D. Berry on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 09:38 am:

I hope one of you can clear this up for me. Is Dr. Mary Limback leaving of her own free will, or is something else going on? I've never seen so many letters to the DMG editor about any one topic before.

By You Say You Want Some Resolution on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 - 03:08 am:

Here’s a Baker’s Dozen Worth Overhanging a Geneaological Link(Click It!):

13 Mystery Miners.jpg

By egf on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 09:07 pm:


By Scott on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 06:03 pm:

For those wanting to know what tree all the hub-bub is...This is\was the "Bear Tree"
This was taken from George's Eagle Harbor Web
Thanks George !!!

tree bear

By Sad Mudpuppy on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 03:25 pm:

Thanks for info Elmer and Tom Cat. Let’s hope a varnished sawed-off version of Bear Tree isn’t in some tourist’s backyard somewhere propping up a plastic birdbath. Truth be told, I haven’t been out of this pond since a Gratiot Lake gang of teen-age moped drivers brought me in a jar to the Lake Linden Drive-In(another lost icon) for a summer 1967 showing of Roger Corman’s The Wild Angels.


As you might conclude from viewing this movie poster, just one look at the upper world was more than enough for me and I haven’t seen anymore of it since those kindly bikers returned me to the muck on their drive back home after the show.
Good luck with your deer hunting, Elmo and also, just for the record, don’t be misled by those IGA ads, barbecued mudpuppy doesn’t taste anything like chicken.

By Tom Cat on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 10:13 am:

Bear Tree was a tourist stop. You would always see people taking there picture by the bear tree. It is just a shame to see another Keweenaw i-con gone.I'm sure alot of kids will be disappointed this summer when there folks drive by and it is not there.It was just one more thing that makes Keweenaw County so special.

Tom Cat

By Elmer on Monday, December 10, 2001 - 05:35 am:

Gay Mudpuppy,
I could be wrong, but I believe the tree in question must be the conifer (pine?) along the highway between Phoenix and Copper Harbor (41?).
A tree with some oddly shaped bulges in its trunk, or at least two or three of them, close together, that someone had painted black (was there some red there too?), and the result was remarkably like a bear (cub) climbing the tree.
As I recall the tree was on the left, heading north, near the road that takes you to Eagle Harbor. And wasn't "two tags" an actual bear that was a bit of a nuisance (aren't we all) in the Copper Harbor area?

P.S. I missed one of the biggest bucks I've shot at yesterday, looked like a 10-pt, and after the smoke cleared from my muzzle-loader, and I stopped shaking enough to climb down from my treestand, I went to the place 20 yards away where he stood. Most telling was the spray of black dirt on the white snow where the lead ball had hit the ground. It was an experience I will never forget.

By Nick Adams on Sunday, December 9, 2001 - 05:39 pm:

The Bush administration is fond of using the phrase “Hijackers of Islam” when referring to Osama bin Laden’s al-Quaeda network and an apt phrase it is. But there are many different ways in which “religion” can be “hijacked” and here’s an excerpt and link to an interesting column on how a few Southern Baptists(via an angry and at times demonizing rhetorical hyperbole dispersed through mass media outlets and huge mailing lists) did just that with their brand and style of “Christian” politics back in the 1980-90’s while simultaneously equating “Christianity” itself (in the minds of many American voters) with their fire-and-brimstone tone on a few specific issues--

‘The obsessions of Christian fundamentalists, like abortion, homosexuality, pornography and evolution, still define today's Robertsonized Right. And conservative intellectual journals like Commentary, National Review and The Weekly Standard now join Kansas and Tennessee fundamentalists in attacking Darwinian biology.
Far from being inevitable, this outcome was unlikely. By inflating the numbers of his followers and taking credit for the Republican capture of Congress in 1994, Mr. Robertson convinced opportunistic Republicans and frightened Democrats that the religious right was a growing force that had to be co-opted or appeased. Polls show, however, that the number of conservative Christians in the United States is stable or shrinking. Most Americans are religious in theory but secular in practice. With each generation, social attitudes become more liberal on questions like abortion and gay rights — a fact that has led Paul Weyrich and other right-wing activists to declare that conservatives have already lost "the culture war."’

ps: I found Charlie Hopper’s recent column at Keweenaw Now quite touching. Enjoyed your post as well, Lynn.

By Gay Mudpuppy on Sunday, December 9, 2001 - 12:57 pm:

Being but a Gratiot Lake bottom-dweller frolicking about in the muck, I freely admit my stupidity when it comes to all that transpires in the Keweenaw. But could some kind soul please describe for me in more detail the location and identity of the Bear Tree(two tags)along with its place in local lore?
Thank you from the bottom of my lake!

By Lynn Torkelson (Ltorkelson) on Sunday, December 9, 2001 - 09:30 am:

Wool Cap,

When you say there is really not much difference between the parties, of course you are right (we're talking the major parties here). On individual votes, urban republicans and urban democrats often vote alike because of common interests, and the same is true of their rural counterparts. When a vital interest of a national party is not at stake, members of congress can usually vote their consciences or, at least, the interests of their constituents. Both parties often work together in dividing up the pork as well.

Regardless of the personal opinions of individual members of congress, though, a national party cannot exist without a strong base of support, financially and electorally. For democrats, the base has included labor unions, minorities, trial lawyers, etc. For republicans, the base has included most large businesses, the Christian Coalition, HMOs, etc. Although no one holds guns to their heads, members of congress are under tremendous pressure to vote with their parties on all issues pertaining to keeping their bases intact. Defections occur, but are so rare as to be newsworthy.

When a national election is held, both parties receive tremendous sums from those who expect governmental favors in return. Those people do not contribute unless (a) they feel that the candidate will do whatever it takes to win the election, and (b) they are certain that the candidate will deliver the goods if elected. On the other hand, the way things stand now, a candidate simply cannot be elected without such contributions. When honest people drop out of politics, they often cite this situation as the reason.

Our system of government works pretty well when the checks and balances that our founding fathers established remain in place. The executive and legislative branches check and balance each other--when they are held by opposite parties. No national constituency can then ride rough-shod over the others. Furthermore, members of congress and the president don't have to deliver much to retain their bases, because everyone realizes that a divided government makes it difficult to deliver partisan favors. When one party holds both branches, the check and balance system is upset. The congress and president work in concert to deliver favors to their base and to undermine the base of the other party. And they have to deliver because they have no excuse for not doing so.

Every time there is a national election, a few articles appear showing various measurements of how the country has done over the past century or more in various categories--economic growth, living standards, etc., under divided and under one-party governments. Invariably the rankings are better during the periods of divided government than during periods of one-party rule. For growth in the stock market for example, the order is, from best to worst:

1. Democratic president, Republican congress (by a wide margin).
2. Republican president, Democratic congress
3. Democratic president, Democratic congress
4. Republican president, Republican congress

Of course, not everything is measureable, but my personal observation is that most everything goes better with divided government. Nothing gets through unless all major party constituencies review it first. Fewer laws pass altogether, and many fewer really dumb laws pass.

By the way, no one has addressed me by my true title, Mt., since Mr. Pinguid. Haven't you noticed that I've lost weight?

By totally amazed on Sunday, December 9, 2001 - 09:10 am:


"The woman's control of her body ends where the new babies DNA begins, at conception."

Wishful thinking on your part, I'd say. I believe there is a 1973 Supreme Court decision that states otherwise.

Anyone know anything about a homicide in Calumet?

By Hackattack on Saturday, December 8, 2001 - 11:44 pm:

Really! I'm sure I saw two-tags headed south on a truck, grinning like a bandit, a bottle of Coppertone in his paw, all smiles and shoe-shines.

By Back at yah baby on Saturday, December 8, 2001 - 11:28 pm:

Hey Babe,
I take you believe OJ was innocent. Why'd that dude leave his DNA all over the flee flickin place?

Perhaps his DNA was just waiting to cast a vote?

Actually, the fetus looks remarkably like a human.
If our beloved scientists had found such an animal on the surface of Mars, they'd be falling all over themselves using said evidence as proof, somehoww, for the non-existence of God.

The woman's control of her body ends where the new babies DNA begins, at conception. We'll worry about tomorrow when tomorrow comes baby.

By baby i'm amazed on Saturday, December 8, 2001 - 10:21 pm:


"does it not have the right to control its destiny"

Holy crap, you're talking about a zygote, a fetus--it isn't capable of controling much of anything, is it? You make it sound like its sitting in there trying to decide which medical school to apply to. FCS, get real.

By Bigbrotherbilly on Saturday, December 8, 2001 - 10:00 pm:

Tom Cat,

The TWO TAGS tree was bought by Gary Kohs to be used as firewood to keep the lighthouse from freezing.

By Orange you glad I'm back on Saturday, December 8, 2001 - 08:49 pm:

So when does a fetus acquire its own DNA? Having acquired its own DNA, is it therefore, a person?
Being a person, does it not have the right to control its destiny, as the woman claims to do, when she collaborates with a doctor to kill it?

Pity science cannot come up with an alternative to abortion, and pity one argument for abortion is that there were back alley abortions.

By Orange on Saturday, December 8, 2001 - 08:30 pm:

Allouez Annie

I'm sorry, I was mistaken. Nothing says Keweenaw
like finger pointing and hiding behind fake names.
I am the stupid idiot!

Okay, can we talk about gay animals again.

By hipchceck on Saturday, December 8, 2001 - 07:32 pm:

Has anyone heard about the homicide in Calumet. Apparently a female was found murdered off of
Elm Street. Someone said she had been shot. Have not heard if anyone was arrested.

By Allouez Annie on Saturday, December 8, 2001 - 05:34 pm:

Please note that the title of this site is KEWEENAW issues.. To call people who live here "stupid idiots" because they care about what's happening HERE is the height of ignorance.

By Bill Bradely on Saturday, December 8, 2001 - 01:08 pm:


Thank you. Now that wasn't so hard was it?

All you need is lots of Powder and let's go to the slopes. Mt. Bohemia is awesome.

The only thing they need to build is some green runs for the skiers with less experience. I have a lot of friends here in the Indy City that want to come up and enjoy the greatest skiing in the Mid West but they are a little scared of the terrain at Bohemia. I'm sure that will come in time.

You guys are fortunate to have such a diamond in the rough, great scenery and great people.

See you all soon.

Happy Holidays

By Tom Cat on Saturday, December 8, 2001 - 12:27 pm:

Tell me it's not true. Is the Bear Tree (two tags)on Hwy.41 gone? Blown down from the storm. If so what did they do with it?

Tom Cat

By Watch out for that big rock up ahead. on Saturday, December 8, 2001 - 12:18 pm:

It's snowing, It's snowing,
WE have about an inch on the ground here. Lets go skiing. We can stay in one of them yurts. Den go to da Quincy's and have din din with Bob. Then off to Ramada and spend the night at Mikes.
We could help those poor people up there in the sticks with our class and money.

By Chance the Gardener on Saturday, December 8, 2001 - 02:26 am:

Click below to download a rough-draft demo of Harlequin and Columbine:

By I'm the Pied Piper on Saturday, December 8, 2001 - 12:40 am:

"It's your mind...
That's all that's trickin' you

I'll show you Where It's At
Heaven's all around you"


By Penniless Purple Pauper on Friday, December 7, 2001 - 10:39 pm:

Sieg Heil, Orange!

For Heavens sake, last I heard they still hold anal(er) anger-management courses out in LA.
Reputedly they even treat West Coast condescension.
Have a Merry Christmas!
(a-and a 'appy New Year too!)

Yours Truly,
Tiny Tim

By Whoop! There it is! on Friday, December 7, 2001 - 10:37 pm:

So where is the Police Academy in K County?

By Wearing a wool cap over me eyes, staying warm..... on Friday, December 7, 2001 - 10:33 pm:

Mt. Torkelson,
Recently, there was a vote in the Senate on an amendment that Mr. Helms begat--something to do with establishing a kind of court to try individuals, not nations, for crimes in war-time.
(Don't quote me on it.)

Mr. Levin voted against the Helms amendment. { and bill(?).} Ms. Stabenow voted for it. (more or less). Mr. Bush's position is one that aligns more or less with how Ms. Stabenow voted.

I realize it is only one example, but could you elaborate a bit more on the President-of-one-party, Congress-controlled-by-another idea you have presented.

The way I see it (and I'm no expert) is that there is not much difference really, between the parties, and that the path our country takes, though not always smooth, requires more definition than one along party lines. In other words, though the scenario you'd like does not exist, events will balance themselves out......

Yes, we likely would have heard more about events in Keweenaw County (hotel in Lac La Belle) is Michelle were given free rein to write only about events there, instead of say, informing us about the Pow-wows in Baraga, while ignoring certain events in Houghton County. Wink wink. But then, Gary wouldn't permit it, remember?

By Orange on Friday, December 7, 2001 - 10:08 pm:

Let's put an end to this. THERE IS NO HOTEL WITH
A POOL IN LLB. Rick Olson, the local deputy and
life long resident of LLB is developing a hotel
with his brother Darron, another life long
resident. To what degree its happening at this
point, I do not know. But the last time I talked
with Rick, in Sept., he said it is in the planning
stages still. The location of the Hotel is
supposed to be where the old Wilderness bar was.
Somewhat across from the LLB fire hall. Near the
water. Let's ask Michele Anderson how's the
permit process going!!!! If you notice, the "ski
hill" has nothing to do with it!!!!!

If you want to misjudge info. Look at this site.
Let me help you with your Keweenaw visit.
1. On the Pasty site is links for The Pine Resort
in Copper Harbor, a link for Copper Harbor, A link
the the LLB resort among others. In that case,
you are dealing with an actual business than a
bunch of stupid idiots that have nothing better to
do with themselves than ramble about sewer
systems, the Taliban, snow, planned parenthood,
2. The Tourism Council has an office in Calumet &
Houghton. I don't have the # handy but you can
call 1-906-555-1212 and ask your friendly

Anything else?

By The woods are noisy with the sound of life on Friday, December 7, 2001 - 09:47 pm:

Sammy from Chicago,
There are many hotels in the Houghton Hancock area that are likely to have openings for a ski weekend. As well, there are hotels in the Calumet-Laurium area. Best Westerns. AmericInn.

All of those Houghton-Hancock rapscallions would be happy to accomodate your wishes. It is rather unfortunate that nobody has answered your question. I have not heard of any hotel being completed in the Lac La Belle area. What with Blackbear breaking down barriers, pulling wool over eyes, and chomping at the bitt to develop the area as we have heard, I suspect we would have heard much ado about a hotel in Lac La Belle had one become a reality.

If nothing else, maybe a local will come on-line to answer your question. It is puzzling why questions such as yours go unanswered.

Did my best.

By Copper Sulfide on Friday, December 7, 2001 - 09:05 pm:

Bill Bradley
Thank you for saving us poor ignorant folk from the Keweenaw. Lets pray you and those like you keep making the nine hour trip back. !!!!!

By Bill Bradley on Friday, December 7, 2001 - 08:55 pm:


Are you related to BIGBROTHERBILLY????

My friends and I drive 9 hours to ski at a great mountain. My friends and I spend a lot of money in your area buisness establishments. We have enjoyed meeting some very nice local people in your area.

If you know anything about avid skiers, you would know that they want the real weather and snow conditions from the ski area, not some web site that may or may not be accurate.

I'm quite sure that Sammy from Chicago has some money to drop in your area, so why don't you answer his question as well instead of showing your ignorance.


Thank God that the the majority of the people in your area are very nice hard working people and thank God that somebody had the courage to build the ski hill so that people like us can come to your area and enjoy the beautiful country and most of all, enjoy the great skiing.

By moi on Friday, December 7, 2001 - 07:55 pm:

How does a ski hill up north ruin any of our lives? Some people are truly baffling. Envy, sounds like. Be glad there's one more thing to do here in the winter! If you don't ski, it's even fun to watch- especially the back-woods part. Cheer up- we live in the best part of the best country in the world. We could be griping that our government stole our food packs. Sure, it's fun to gripe, but to gripe about a ski hill???

By Snot-Nosed Deadbeat Nature Conservancy Supporter Trapped in a Pink Cadillac Rollover Down by the Montreal River on Friday, December 7, 2001 - 06:36 pm:

911? Uh yeah, could you send “Orange” speeding up here with his ambulance of merciful contributions to rescue us from this dreadful website? Methinks we’ve just been pooped upon and the smell is growing awful!

By Orange on Friday, December 7, 2001 - 04:19 pm:

Like a car wreck, I slow down to see this site
periodicly and, like always, I am stunned at the
ignorance of the people posting on here. Of
course, some may call me a hypocrite for posting
here as well but that's all right.

Let me address some posts I've read.
1. Bikini contest? The point of such a thing
would be to draw attention to the hill, among
other things. The fact that it is being mentioned
on here is already making it a success.
2, Spring Break is often a good week with the
snowmobiling, why not skiing.
3. If you have the ability to post on this site,
you have the ability to look up the weather on the
net. I think pasty even gives the temp.
4. An over looked group in this land deal is the
Nature Conservancy. I know as a FACT that it was
the NC that worked to get the two parties
together. More so than the guy from Hancock.
Although I do stand behind anyone that gets off
their ••• and does something for the area.
5. Excuse to develop land? Welcome to the real
world sweetheart. I don't think anybody every
really thought that creating community of some
sort wasn't part of it. Name one ski hill in the
world that can just stand alone as a mound of snow
and make it. STUPID!
6. Whether there is a ski hill or not isn't
really the reason behind the restaurants closing
or not. The ski hill alone, at this point cannot
make or break a restaurant.

Let's think a little... Please!!!!

By pampered on Friday, December 7, 2001 - 03:52 pm:


Let's see, normally (with school in session) there would be about 7,000 local students here. Just how many people from the cities are we expecting?

By Ted Belej (Ted) on Friday, December 7, 2001 - 03:29 pm:


I think the idea of the bikini contest is to get people that are on break in the cities (Milwaukee, Chicago, and Minneapolis). So that's actually pretty good timing.


By Uphill 41 Bikini Contest 2nd Runner-Up on Friday, December 7, 2001 - 03:16 pm:

Think Mt. Bohemia’s got it bad?
Think again!

Mars Ski Report: Snow is Hard, Dense and Disappearing
By Robert Roy Britt
Senior Science Writer at

Mars would make a lousy host for the Winter Olympics. Yes, there's the lack of air to consider. But more important, Martian snow turns out to be rock hard. Worse, it is melting away at an alarming rate.
In fact, Mars may be in the midst of a period of profound climate change, according to a new study that shows dramatic year-to-year losses of snow at the south pole.

Click here for more:

By pampered on Friday, December 7, 2001 - 01:24 pm:

Why doesn't everybody just give those guys from Mt. Bohemia a break! The reason they're not answering the phones is because they're all at Uphill 41 waiting for the Bikini Contest to start.

Talk about a bunch of guys totally out of sync with the local scene. They schedule a bikini contest in a college town--smart idea, right? Only problem is, the date they pick is a week before the students come back from semester break.

Lucky break for some local girl, I suppose.

By Bill Bradley on Friday, December 7, 2001 - 12:25 pm:


I think you need to go back and read my previous posting and get the facts, then start shooting off.

There are people from outside your area that read this site. There was a question asked by Sammy, from Chicago and I haven't seen anyone answer his question yet.

I drive 9 hours (oneway) with a car full of friends to ski Bohemia. We don't know what kind of weather you are having up there.

You are obviously not in business up there because I haven't met any business owner have an attitude like you up there.

Instead of mouthing off at "Not gonna be taken in"
and making comments about idiots that don't know that it doesn't snow in 55 degree temperatures, why don't you answer the questions from people that love to come to the Keweenaw and spend money.

By james studebaker (Ahmeekguy) on Thursday, December 6, 2001 - 11:50 pm:

Gee Bigbrotherbilly, you sure are defensive when it comes to that hill. I hope you can appreciate the frustration some people still carry from their defense of the original hill. Oh and I hate that word "whiner", my wife uses it all the time to downplay my point of view.

By Bigbrotherbilly on Thursday, December 6, 2001 - 09:59 pm:

Not to be taken,

Also you whiner, obviously you haven't tried calling Bohemia yourself or you would know that they do have an answering service 24 hrs a day. Maybe you should come up with your own material instead of going off of some other whiner's word!

By Bigbrotherbilly on Thursday, December 6, 2001 - 09:56 pm:

Not to be taken anywhere,

What's the point in having a full crew working if there's no snow?? If people had any brains they wouldn't be calling and just look outside to see snow conditions. How much snow falls in 55 degree weather? Face it you whiner the ski hill is here to stay!! So buy your season pass and enjoy it. Life is too short to have such a sour outlook.

By Nick Adams on Thursday, December 6, 2001 - 09:34 pm:

I'm with you on Keystone Bay, 'A different Scott'. That's one beautiful stretch of sandy beach there, the real gem of the whole south shore between Bete Gris and High Rock Bay in fact and potentially ripe for permanent colonization by I.P. connected developers someday. It would be a shame to see access to it completely privatized. A county park for at least a section of it would be nice otherwise it may eventually go the way of Rabbit and Little Traverse Bay with little or no public access space at all.

By Not gonna be taken in !!! on Thursday, December 6, 2001 - 09:24 pm:

To Big Brother Billy...
As a point was brought up here in an earlier post...
Why isn't the farce of a ski hill answering their phones ???
I'm sure they're missing quite a few calls about the snow conditions...
Any real business would gladly accept and answer the calls, just so they could drum up future business.
A real business would have an answering service or a machine at the least.
Now, why aren't they answering calls ???
Because as someone said here earlier...
"Bohemeia is just a big joke !!!
All along i've said all they're interested in is being able to develop the land.
They could give a rats a** about a "ski hill".
It's just an excuse for them to pull the wool over the locals eyes. Promising jobs, spinoff jobs, etc."

Buncha suckers

By A different Scott on Thursday, December 6, 2001 - 09:09 pm:

But, I read that this purchase no longer includes Keystone???
But, we'll take what we can get though...

By Scott Laurie, Mohawk on Thursday, December 6, 2001 - 08:09 pm:

I see in the Mining Gazette tonight that the State Purchase of Keweenaw lands is gonna happen this month. Three cheers, hip hip hooray, hip hip hooray, hip hip hooray.

By Bigbrotherbilly on Thursday, December 6, 2001 - 06:19 pm:

If you whiners would <look around> you could see there is no snow anywhere to ski on! There isn't even any yellow snow! Find a different subject to belly-ache about. Like HMMMMMM has anybody seen anybody waterskiing on LAKE SUPERIOR at all this weekend?

from the Pasty Cam

By pampered on Thursday, December 6, 2001 - 09:27 am:

Is this absurd or what?

The Justice Department refuses to let the FBI inquiry gun records to determine if any of the 1,200 detainees held in the Sept 11th attacks bought guns.

By Confused on Thursday, December 6, 2001 - 01:36 am:

Abuse of power? What power? Greed? What are you
talking about?

By Lynn Torkelson (Ltorkelson) on Wednesday, December 5, 2001 - 07:56 pm:


You asked me:


Are you brainwashed to say Republicans lead you down that dark alley to destruction.

And the answer is no. It's not a democrat/republican kind of thing. Neither party can elect a decent president today, because to gain that office you have to be willing to say and do things that a decent person wouldn't find acceptable. The very best we can hope for is that circumstances don't allow the potus to cause much damage.

It's true that, because the republicans held congress, it would have been better for the country if Gore had won. Historically, the US has done best when the potus and congress were divided between the parties. BTW, if Gore had won, a republican would have replaced Lieberman, so the republicans would still hold the senate today. The reason that the 90's were good was because the potus was a democrat and the congress (for the most part) was republican. Together, they could only mess up the country on things that they agreed on, such as showering benefits upon those who contributed to both parties.

Regarding your comment that our new potus has done a "tremendous" job, well, I'm going to have to disagree with you there. On the plus side, he has surrounded himself with experienced people. However, he has a big hurdle to overcome over the next three years because of his initial actions as potus.

In the campaign for potus last year, Bush asked people to vote for him in exchange for a few hundred dollars apiece from the nation's treasury. He explained over and over that he'd give all of us a little money, that he and his friends would loot the rest, and that our children and grandchildren would have to foot the bill. Enough people went for the money to get him elected. Sure enough, six months after he was elected, he and his buddies in congress had already blown the country's financial position like drunken sailors. So, now that a crisis hits, we don't even have a cushion to fall back on. Tremendous? Not in my book.

So why would Gore have done any better? With a republican congress, Gore couldn't pass any of his stupid ideas, and Gore would veto the stupid ideas of congress. When one party (either party) grabs both branches, the stupid ideas spew like a firehose, and nothing stops them.
By SpeedTrap on Wednesday, December 5, 2001 - 06:05 pm:

Gee, glad you are back to Mt. Bohemia. Mt. Bohemia is there because of abuse of power and greed by the Land Co., Keweenaw Tourism Council, the Keweenaw Board and plain folk who didn't have a cottage in LacLaBelle. And, its just plain folk who own cottages in LacLaBelle who tried to protect their area from big-time development and the problems that have come. Mr. Glieberman leases the land--built a Yurt Village that far surpasses any in any third-world country. He bought used ski lifts that are questionably safe. A National Forest Service worker who works Taos, New Mexico told me the color alone is a no-no-, purple and lime green--they are supposed to blend in with the landscape. Well, that is the least of it.

In the winter the road is maintained well--this summer the County put in a culvert to stop erosion, as private land was being dumped on with mud. Taxpayer expense, you betch ya! Now because Grant Township turned down the request grant for the Septic System, he has modified it to accomodate less skiers and now that it is his money, less $$$$. It will accommodate only ll skiers instead of 20 per day, this to meet code. If you have too many skiers, you only get to go once!!! Can any plain folk afford to buy in the Keweenaw? Isn't that what this is all about--raising land values?? See you on the slopes, but don't drink that second cup of coffee!!

By pampered on Wednesday, December 5, 2001 - 11:37 am:

I'd also like to mention that we're gaining a new restaurant. In February, the Border Grill is opening in the Sharon Center in Houghton. If you're not familiar with them, they have a couple of stores in the Marquette area and are fabulous! Everything is made from scratch and fresh!

By Don't dine there no more, no more, no more on Wednesday, December 5, 2001 - 11:02 am:

Country Haus & Shawns. Two that I know of....any more recently?

By Still Waiting on Wednesday, December 5, 2001 - 10:46 am:

Still waiting to hear what two restaurants closed. Could someone please answer this.

By King Copper Top on Wednesday, December 5, 2001 - 01:57 am:

Hey folks, check out all the great new historical Copper Country Photos(like this one) that have been recently posted at Chuck Voelker’s Reflections site:

Calumet’s Pride Brew

By The Police on Wednesday, December 5, 2001 - 01:21 am:

"Many miles away
Something crawls to the surface
Of a dark Scottish Loch"

Synchronicity II

By Funky Wagnallis Webster on Wednesday, December 5, 2001 - 12:23 am:

Rant: archaic Scottish for "boisterous merry-making"

By Amongst The Nimby People on Tuesday, December 4, 2001 - 09:32 pm:

No I dont live there:
Kudos to that. Many locals opposed see the horse and pony show that lonnie presents. However, there are local wanna bes who are blinded by greed and promise of the pot of gold. Too bad for them, when it happens and it is gone they will have only themselves to blame. Bete Grise North, Bete Grise South ya think maybe it is all connected? As Agassiz stated the environmental laws are enforced against joe citizen, but hey big business such as breakwinds get the rubber stamp of approval on a county and state level, it is enough to make ya sick. You betcha. Maybe the KLA can come out of mothballs.

By No I don't live there, but...I'm warning ya !!! I've seen it before on Tuesday, December 4, 2001 - 07:57 pm:

Bohemeia is just a big joke !!!
All along i've said all they're interested in is being able to develop the land.
They could give a rats a** about a "ski hill".
It's just an excuse for them to pull the wool over the locals eyes. Promising jobs, spinoff jobs, etc.
Proof in point....ANSWER THE PHONE !!!
I'll betcha a $20 that in the next two years, they'll fold. Then they'll develop it into condos or high priced rich people vacation homes. Their ORIGINAL INTENT !!!
Open up your eyes, what has LONNIE done before... Run a ski hill ??? No...LAND DEVELOPER !!!
They got their sewer !!!
You watch...
Buncha suckers !!!

By Bill Bradley on Tuesday, December 4, 2001 - 04:04 pm:

Is Bohemia open yet. I have tried to call and nobody answers the phone and nobody returns my calls when I leave a message.

By Copper Sulfide on Tuesday, December 4, 2001 - 03:56 pm:

Anyone know how many people skiied on Bohemia this weekend?

By Richard Delene come back to the five and dime. on Tuesday, December 4, 2001 - 03:54 pm:

Hmm, seems to me Mr. Delene was prosecuted for improving wetlands on his own property by the big bad DEQ and the DNR in Lansing. Now I ask why is it ok for a business such as breakwinds to build a sewer system right next to a wetland and get away with it? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Simple.
The DEQ would not say if the area contains a wetland or not. They would not say that it is for a simple reason. $$$$$$$$$$$$$ Mr. Delene did not have enough friends in high places. Who are the major $$$$$$$$$ contributors to Engler? International Paper one of them $$$$$$$$$$$ oh yeah.

By atroll on Tuesday, December 4, 2001 - 02:51 pm:

Just because our rights are undergoing some restriction right now, it is justifiable due to the current dangers. I am sure the terror attacks to our country are not over. Do you want to be the one that explains to the next 5,000 victim's families, why we shouldn't have been a little more vigilant in fighting terrorism? As history shows, there is usually a pendulum affect in these trends. If we have less rights now, we will be safer, and at some point, we will be able to regain our lost rights. This is still a democracy if I remember correctly.

By Nick Adams on Tuesday, December 4, 2001 - 11:33 am:

It couldn't hurt to have some kind of congressionally-appointed ombudsman be an official participant of the Military Tribunal's proceedings. That might help alleviate some of the inevitable paranoia likely to arise if the secrecy of the trials is deemed too excessive for both republican and democratic moderates concerned about civil rights and fairness.

By Yooper in Indiana on Tuesday, December 4, 2001 - 11:14 am:

Sammy,,,am sure that someone would be kind enuf to open a hole into Lac La Belle for ya to swim in your own pool.

By SpeedTrap on Tuesday, December 4, 2001 - 09:55 am:

Lynn...There is no Utopia, our heritage well may be this struggle for money and power. Give Bush a break, he is doing a tremendous job and he just took office--got hit with a war. He is surprizing all the liberal media with his intelligence commitment to our defense. By affect, I mean touch. Of course, who would want a phone wire-tapped, but I would gladly give up that freedom for the safety of all. Many are over-inflating the actions being taken here, in these perilous times. These measures only apply to the "suspect". Where would 64% of the people take this country? To a bad place? Are you brainwashed to say Republicans lead you down that dark alley to destruction. Really. If you remember, Nixon resigned in disgrace, by orders from the Republican Party and we cheered. The Democratic Party stood behind Clinton only to retain their power. Pathetic. How were Kennedy and Johnson in their wars. Kennedy fumbled the ball (Bay of Pigs) and Johnson lied and kept us in Vietnam. If I were you Democrats, I would open my eyes and stop listening to your Party. How about drilling for gas in Alaska? Wow, that really throws you for a loop!

By Lynn Torkelson (Ltorkelson) on Monday, December 3, 2001 - 05:54 pm:


I agree with you 100% that the Democrats misuse power just as much as the Republicans do. I do wish that our country had one party (at least) who would, on principle, stand up against this betrayal of our heritage.

The standard for 30 years has been that the FBI could put a person under surveillance only if the FBI had some reason, however tenuous, to believe that the person had committed, or was planning to commit, a crime. Now the Attorney General finds that this is too restrictive. In other words, he wishes to put people under surveillance with no reason to believe that they have any involvement with criminal activity. So how do you suppose that the targets for surveillance should now be chosen?


The only people it will affect are the guilty.

By "affect" do you mean "be arrested for a crime?" Perhaps you would welcome government surveillance because you know that the government agents will not find that you have committed a crime, and therefore the surveillance of your calls, mail, email, financial affairs, and love life would not "affect" you in the least. In my case, I believe that government agents would find me law-abiding and honest too (although I probably should check the old Michigan laws in the "love life" area to be certain). Nevertheless, it would certainly affect me deeply to learn that I had been singled out for such an invasion of privacy.

Probably the ultimate answer, and the one toward which you and the rest of the 64% is pushing, is to have everyone under government surveillance 100% of the time. That way, no one will feel singled out, or discriminated against, because of the invasion of privacy--there will be no privacy. But just imagine how much this will reduce crime! Imagine how much safer we will all be! Imagine the praises that will be sung to the politicians who eventually accomplish this! (No one will want to say a word against them, in public or in private, that's for sure.) And the beauty of this approach is, as you say, that "the only people it will affect are the guilty." How perfect!

Yes, I can understand the attraction you, and many other people, have for security above all else. But I don't like where you and the rest of the 64% are taking this country, and I don't think that the founding fathers would either.
By pampered on Monday, December 3, 2001 - 01:24 pm:


I'm not defending Clinton. But let's not forget that prior to September 11, Bush was just as complacent about Osama bin Laden and the Taliban as the previous administration. In fact, in May of this year he "rewarded" the Taliban with a gift from the American taxpayers to the tune of $43 million.

And as I said before, and I'll say again, I didn't vote for Bush but I'm pretty much in agreement with the way the military response has played out so far.

By SpeedTrap on Monday, December 3, 2001 - 01:04 pm:

In defense of President Bush and freedom-loving people everywhere, we want to defeat terrorism so that we can enjoy peace and tranquility for ourselves and all people. Common sense tells me that at perilous times you use effective measures, whether it be a Military Tribunal or wire-tapping. Frankly I like President Bush's power here. He want to protect us and 64% of the people agree. We are at war, we have been attacked. Where were you liberals when Clinton used the FBI to control people, the IRS, China campaigning, freeing convicted drug dealers and criminals, lying under oath, etc. just to retain his power and the power of the Democratic Party. Shall we blame such un-Americanism for what has happened today? Clinton knew all about these terrorists, but wanted no problems...guess he had enough in his personal life. You people are ridiculous, you are being abused by your own Party, you act like "comrades" unable to have a free thought. What is wrong with protecting our Country? How will a Military Tribunal affect the ordinary man? How will wire-tapping affect you? The only people it will affect are the guilty. You talk like we live in some Utopia here. Admit the United States is blessed and grateful for the power and leadership from the White House. What a breath of fresh air.

By Nick Adams on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 05:55 pm:

Your “treason” question with respect to whistle-blowing on an abusive Military Tribunal is an interesting one, Pampered, and one for which I have no informed reply. I was referring more to the Bush Justice Department behavior in general rather than the special-case conduct of a Military Tribunal(whose unilateral creation many rightly view with a prudent wariness). The New York Times devoted its entire editorial today to address the potential civil rights abuses of a Military Tribunal and did so with far more worry than that of their foreign affairs columnist. The pessimists and civil rights legal-eagles will undoubtedly have their eyes more open and focused on this subject than the rest of us, but just for perspective, here are a couple of less-alarmist commentaries on what seems to be the hot topic across the country:
Tom Friedman on the potential for abuse by a military tribunal--“Rights in the Real World”
George Will on the potential for abuses by a Bush “Imperial Presidency”

For better or worse, considering what has happened in Israel over the past 24 hours, I suspect that the Law and Order types who prefer to err on the side of caution will be getting more public support than those who are concerned about the civil rights of alleged war criminals.

By pampered on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 03:30 pm:

Nick Adams,

In theory, I agree with everything you say. Unfortunately, I don't share your optimism that these expanded powers will be used judiciously or impartially.

There have been too many examples of abuses of power and this new policy sets a dangerous precedent.

As for whistle-blowers exposing high-level corruption--remember that these activities will be conducted covertly in the name of national security. Does that mean that potential whistle-blowers working within the system could be charged with treason?

By Nick Adams on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 02:30 pm:

I share a wariness for the potential of abuse in these matters, Pampered, but I think you've got your paranoia upside-down. Though there were certainly a number of murderous southern segregationists active back in the 1960's, during the FBI Cointelpro era most domestic political "violence" or distubance of the peace was coming from the Left(Weathermen, SLA, anti-War demonstrators etc). The FBI's concern with Martin Luther King(however misguided) was that he was carrying water for the Communists(by far the biggest "left-wing" bogeyman of the era).
In the recent past however, most organized domestic political violence has been coming from individuals loosely-affiliated with right-wing(and often religiously-oriented) groups--Abortion Doctor killings, bombing of Oklahoma City federal building, Eric Rudolph bombings, Aryan Nation murder-sprees etc etc.
Eco-terror individuals or groups seem to occupy a more anarchic or mixed political niche having bombed a variety of government, corporate and academic targets.
I find it much more likely that the Ashcroft Justice Department will be looking into the organized religious activities of fundamentalist Muslim and Christian groups than those of left-wing folk. Their job is to keep the peace, so what they focus on is "following the violence". If they decide to abuse this role for political purposes than you can bet we'll find out about it. Today's politicians live in a high-tech media fishbowl today that just didn't exist 30-40 years ago and there are plenty of potential whistle-blowers who can make a pretty penny by exposing high-level corruption.
As always, eternal vigilance is a necessity in the maintenance of true freedom.

By pampered on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 08:18 am:


Thanks for being so alert--how could I forget the environmentalists--they will be on the top of the list, I'm sure!

Here is a related article published in this morning's Guardian:,6903,610381,00.html

This interesting article, if you're still in the reading mood, is about an American Taliban warrior:

By Call the Police, Quick quick quick, Call the police, Hurry hurry! on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 04:34 am:

It's comforting, Pampered, to see that you see the issue as one of who should and who should not be spied upon. But you left out at least one group on the list being spied upon: The VOFC. As most people know it: The Vast Old Fogey Conspiracy.

Yes, I'm aware of how the Old Fogeys are in cahoots, still fighting the Generation Gap, doing to utmost to keep the youth of the nation on edge by:

1) Driving 46 mph, rain or shine, ice or bare roads in 55 mph zones. Closet environ-wackos, they're concerned with saving lifes, not trees.

2) By stubbornly rising before any sane person and having their driveway scooped before anyone else, having their lawn cut long before it is necessary.

3) By dying their hair purple, insulting the punk generation, and by making rude comments to avant garde youth who dare to wear brightly colored flourescent Mohawks, comments such as, "Are you my son? I once spent a wild night with a parrot."

O! The list goes on and on. They too, The VOFC, should be on it!

By Sammy from Chicago on Saturday, December 1, 2001 - 11:42 pm:

We are planning a ski vacation to the Keweenaw sometime in January. Could someone tell me the name of the motel in Lac La Belle that was being built this summer. Also does this motel have a swimming pool.

By pampered on Saturday, December 1, 2001 - 09:14 pm:

"Attorney General John Ashcroft is considering a plan to relax restrictions on the F.B.I.'s spying on religious and political organizations."

I can see it now--the organizations the F.B.I. WON'T be spying on:

right-wing religious groups
right-to-life groups
conservative charities and foundations

Groups the F.B.I WILL be spying on:

family planning organizations
non-Christian religious groups

Osama bin Laden isn't near as frightening as what I see happening right here at home.

By Red Jacket on Saturday, December 1, 2001 - 12:20 pm:

How come the rest of the world is moving toward freedom and we're moving in the other direction? This is scary: FBI asks for secret police powers.

By Frodo on Saturday, December 1, 2001 - 02:44 am:

Ditto "Sun":

Yellow Submarine.jpg

By Here Comes the Sun on Saturday, December 1, 2001 - 01:23 am:

"We just made it up as we went along.
I think that's what you do in life"

George Harrison commenting on The Beatles
(Cribbed from ABC's Nightline)

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